ZapFC Headerless Format

Discuss emulation of the Nintendo Entertainment System and Famicom.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
FitzRoy
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:27 pm
Contact:

Post by FitzRoy » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:48 am

etabeta wrote:but this in my opinion bloats a bit the whole idea: why do you need .fc folders and zip container for download? why not plain zip and extension-less folders?
How does differentiating a game folder from a regular folder bloat the idea? Double clicking a folder in a load window typically assumes navigation. With an extension, it can know you mean to run it without having to do something less efficient like interpret its contents.

Similar logic for archives. How would an emulator know it's meant to be handled differently? How would a user know the difference if the filename was identical to a compressed iNES file? In fact, any game file not using an extension prefix is what prevents emulators from being able to filter out non-game zip files from the load directory.

etabeta
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:11 am
Location: Trieste, Italy

Post by etabeta » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:46 am

FitzRoy wrote:How does differentiating a game folder from a regular folder bloat the idea? Double clicking a folder in a load window typically assumes navigation. With an extension, it can know you mean to run it without having to do something less efficient like interpret its contents.
I meant that you include the compression in the format for something that could be handled by simple .zip without including compression in the format
FitzRoy wrote:Similar logic for archives. How would an emulator know it's meant to be handled differently? How would a user know the difference if the filename was identical to a compressed iNES file?
by checking the extension: if .nes or .unf it's iNES or UNIF, if anything else is a file requiring a check in the internal database (be it xml or zapfc)
FitzRoy wrote:In fact, any game file not using an extension prefix is what prevents emulators from being able to filter out non-game zip files from the load directory.
that's what rom manager are for, imho. so that you store gamefile in the way you want and you don't store e.g. a Megadrive game or other zipfile inside your NES folder.


anyway, if other devs find your approach useful, I'm fully supportive!

User avatar
FitzRoy
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:27 pm
Contact:

Post by FitzRoy » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:47 am

etabeta wrote:I meant that you include the compression in the format for something that could be handled by simple .zip without including compression in the format
Every emulator that supports ZIP supports ZIP decompression, so I fail to see how mandating no compression would do anything but confuse people. "Hi, I archived my own file and won't work. Help!"
by checking the extension: if .nes or .unf it's iNES or UNIF, if anything else is a file requiring a check in the internal database (be it xml or zapfc)
But that's looking at the contents. One the outside, they look the same.
that's what rom manager are for, imho. so that you store gamefile in the way you want and you don't store e.g. a Megadrive game or other zipfile inside your NES folder.
To an extent, I agree. People need to sort their own shit in folders so that the burden isn't on the emulator to filter for you. But let's say you created a multi-patch container to go with multi-rom container. Can't have identical filenames in the same folder.

tepples
Posts: 21841
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
Contact:

Post by tepples » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:46 am

etabeta wrote:you don't store e.g. a Megadrive game or other zipfile inside your NES folder.
Unless you're storing, say, all versions of Klax together.

Another case: I don't have an "NES folder" on one of my machines. I have /home/pino/develop, which currently contains SDL projects and NES projects but could expand to Genesis projects and Android projects. Even for someone who plays only licensed NES games, where in the file system would this NES folder be located so that the emulator can find it?

etabeta
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:11 am
Location: Trieste, Italy

Post by etabeta » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:39 am

FitzRoy wrote:But that's looking at the contents. One the outside, they look the same.
got it. I'm not sure using .fc is the best possible solution, but it is indeed a solution to this specific problem.

tepples wrote:Unless you're storing, say, all versions of Klax together.
yeah, we have added this in MESS (even if it is not the suggested storage method) and it's one of the nice side effects of using an internal database because you can match the crc to see if it is the version for that console, without relying on extensions or anything else... however, there seems to be only a (very small) minority of users interested in such a kind of setup, since most users seem to want to have roms separated by systems.
tepples wrote:Even for someone who plays only licensed NES games, where in the file system would this NES folder be located so that the emulator can find it?
most emulators let you choose a path to roms, don't them?

User avatar
Bregalad
Posts: 7794
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:49 pm
Location: Chexbres, VD, Switzerland

Post by Bregalad » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:22 pm

YEAH THAT's 20 PAGES !!!!!!!!
HURRAY AND LONG LIVE TO RIDICULOUS USELESS DEBATES ! (that even my tolling can't stop ) :(
Life is complex: it has both real and imaginary components.

byuu
Posts: 1543
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:23 pm
Contact:

Post by byuu » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:45 pm

Bregalad wrote:YEAH THAT's 20 PAGES !!!!!!!!
HURRAY AND LONG LIVE TO RIDICULOUS USELESS DEBATES ! (that even my tolling can't stop ) :(
If not for your(s and others') useless posts, we may not have reached 20 pages at all. Thanks for making the dream a reality! :D

3gengames
Formerly 65024U
Posts: 2269
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:57 pm

Post by 3gengames » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:39 pm

Not as useless as the updates on this new thing only the whopping 3 people in the thread will use! :D

panzeroceania
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:09 am

Post by panzeroceania » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:44 pm

there is a site that I go to that already has 26 hits on ZapFC.

that's actually more people than are pages here :o

3gengames
Formerly 65024U
Posts: 2269
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:57 pm

Post by 3gengames » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:47 pm

That'll displace the iNES standard! Hell yeah!

panzeroceania
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:09 am

Post by panzeroceania » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:27 pm

I don't think anyone is trying to displace ines so much as provide an alternative to those who want it. It seems apparent that there is some interest or there wouldn't be this much discussion to begin with.

User avatar
Zepper
Formerly Fx3
Posts: 3192
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:59 pm
Location: Brazil
Contact:

Post by Zepper » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:06 pm

byuu wrote:
Bregalad wrote:YEAH THAT's 20 PAGES !!!!!!!!
HURRAY AND LONG LIVE TO RIDICULOUS USELESS DEBATES ! (that even my tolling can't stop ) :(
If not for your(s and others') useless posts, we may not have reached 20 pages at all. Thanks for making the dream a reality! :D
Yeah, perhaps 19 only... but never 20! <>_<> /trollmode

mudlord
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:05 pm
Contact:

Post by mudlord » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:27 pm

byuu wrote:
Bregalad wrote:YEAH THAT's 20 PAGES !!!!!!!!
HURRAY AND LONG LIVE TO RIDICULOUS USELESS DEBATES ! (that even my tolling can't stop ) :(
If not for your(s and others') useless posts, we may not have reached 20 pages at all. Thanks for making the dream a reality! :D
Yay! :D
Useless formats ftw, coupled with ..........................

I find it amazing no matter how hard I try to register on your forum to do a valid concern, I'm banned.

Just how is that meant to work? Oh yeah, this is how!
"Its not a democracy, its a cheerocracy! :P "

User avatar
FitzRoy
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:27 pm
Contact:

Post by FitzRoy » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:00 pm

Yeah, that makes sense. Everyone 1% as popular as Lagy Gaga should give up music, they suck. Every atheist should find religion immediately. Why fight the crowds?

3gengames
Formerly 65024U
Posts: 2269
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:57 pm

Post by 3gengames » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:03 pm

People trying to change standards are icky. Sorry, can't stop trolling. Hopefully later people with an idea for a new standard will get the message, unlike this thread which is still going. :wink: :roll:


Let's make more stuff that makes ROM's not useable on real hardware from the virgin files! Despite that being basically the whole idea....
Last edited by 3gengames on Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply