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Progress Thread - Nebs & Debs Prequel
https://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=14503
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Author:  dullahan [ Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Nebs & Debs Prequel

Quote:
Looks good. I would make the octopus bounce one frame out of phase with the body movement. When the player's body begins to move up is when the edges of the hat should show their dip. That way, the octopus's tentacles will appear to have inertia.


Thanks, I will give that a try.

Quote:
This happened to the octopus in my game too; it seemed like in 2 dimensions it should only require 2^2 legs. ;)

Then again, Octodad only has four legs too. Maybe this is a video game thing...?

This sprite looks real nice, though, dullahan. Looking forward to whatever you come up with.


Thanks rainwarrior. Yeah, the number of arms/legs for me is strictly due to size constraints--I couldn't fit any more in a 16x24 space.

Quote:
Looking good. Incidentally I'm stuck in my project because I'm trying to program a tool to generate animation code easily... you seem to have that already figured out so props to you :) :beer:


When I am working on animations I just do it all inside PyxelEdit which has a nice animation editor. Then when I am happy with the animation I export a sprite-sheet. With the sprite-sheet as input I run a ruby script to generate the CHR and ATTR bytes. Then I manually enter the frame def bytes in the metasprite/object definition.

I used to have a fancier workflow with ruby scripts detecting the palette, reading JSON animation defs, etc; but it was buggy and complex and not offering enough benefit.

Author:  dullahan [ Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Nebs & Debs Prequel

Made some progress with collision detection logic and reacquainting myself with the code-base (have been working mostly on pixel art commissions the past few weeks). I also cleaned up some of my metrics tools such as ROM and RAM usage.

So next week I hope to have collision detection working and basic player movement. After that will be Debs special ability--blinking through walls and enemies.

Attachments:
metrics.png
metrics.png [ 61.5 KiB | Viewed 1853 times ]

Author:  Guilty [ Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Nebs & Debs Prequel

mikejmoffitt wrote:
If you'd like, I would not mind sharing my metasprite animation format, which allows for variable frame lengths and arbitrary loop points.

PLEASE.
I've been struggling with animation code for so long. I wasted an entire month making a metasprite animation routine that ended up using an entire 30 rasters for a single instance. Then I started making high cycle efficiency code for each animation and my raster count is down to like 3 but I'm running out of ROM a lot faster. I need examples so bad.

Author:  mikejmoffitt [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Nebs & Debs Prequel

I'll see about cleaning it up a little, as it's only slightly coupled to how my game is built right now.

Author:  dullahan [ Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Nebs & Debs Prequel

Progress has been slow with collisions between the background and sprites, but I now have it working. See attached GIF. Up next need to experiment with Debs special ability.

- EDIT -
The embedded GIF preview looks corrupted, but clicking on it to view in another tab works fine for me at least.

Attachments:
coll.gif
coll.gif [ 1.05 MiB | Viewed 1577 times ]

Author:  Myask [ Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Nebs & Debs Prequel

Corrupted, makes me think of the old Animator vs Animation …animation.

Author:  koitsu [ Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Nebs & Debs Prequel

The "preview GIF" is corrupted because it's doing the Wrong Thing(tm) for "erased frames". Animated GIFs support multiple methods of frame disposal.

Preview GIF: download/file.php?id=6698&t=1
Full GIF: download/file.php?id=6698&mode=view

Please see:

* Frame Disposal Methods: http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/anim_basics/#dispose
* Types of Animations: http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/anim_basics/#types

I have not run ImageMagick's identify on either image (the extended metadata is what needs to be viewed, to determine disposal method), but I'm certain it would disclose the mistake.

Author:  rainwarrior [ Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Nebs & Debs Prequel

I don't think it actually has anything to do with disposal? I think it's entirely about scaling. After the first frame none of them are in the correct position or correct size. The size is even inconsistent (obviously every frame should get the same scaling).

If they were scaled correctly, you wouldn't see the "bad disposal" trails. The problem is the pixels that are supposed to hide the previous frame's sprite are at the wrong position and size.

Author:  thefox [ Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Nebs & Debs Prequel

koitsu wrote:
Please see:

Not all that useful, since it was almost certainly phpBB that wrecked the GIF when resizing it down.

Author:  rainwarrior [ Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Nebs & Debs Prequel

Specifically, what it looks like is happening in the preview resize:

1. The X,Y offset of each frame is not being changed, instead of being scaled down with everything else.
2. The scale of each individual frame is adjusted to match either the width or height of the preview image (best fit), rather than the overall scale of the image.

This means that frames where only a small sub-rectangle changes, that rectangle gets blown up to the total width/height of the image, and also gets left in its original offset.

Basically the resizer makes the incorrect assumption that all frames are the size of the whole image and at offset 0,0, and generates a totally bogus GIF whenever this isn't true.

Author:  rainwarrior [ Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Nebs & Debs Prequel

There's two common optimization steps when preparing GIFs. The first uses blank transparency to cover any area not changed since the previous frame, and the second crops each frame to a rectangle enclosing the differences.

Because the second step is only cropping out empty transparency, the savings there is rather minor compared to the first step. If you want to work around phpBB's resizing bug, it's reasonable to leave out (or undo) that second step. I used a GIMP plugin to undo it for this test.

Here's the original image, but with that step undone. It's only 6% bigger than the original version and should preview correctly:
Attachment:
File comment: coll.gif with all frames expanded to the size of the overall image.
coll_expand.gif
coll_expand.gif [ 1.11 MiB | Viewed 1464 times ]

I think it has an additional "ghosting" problem from trying to use bilinear interpolation to resize instead of nearest neighbour, but we can only squeeze so much blood from this stone. It's a bad resizer and it should feel bad.

Author:  dullahan [ Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Nebs & Debs Prequel

Thanks everyone for the GIF detective work. Been working on cleaning up Debs run animations today by reducing frames and adding more personality.

Attachments:
tmp-blink-running.gif
tmp-blink-running.gif [ 12.22 KiB | Viewed 1430 times ]

Author:  koitsu [ Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Nebs & Debs Prequel

thefox wrote:
koitsu wrote:
Please see:

Not all that useful, since it was almost certainly phpBB that wrecked the GIF when resizing it down.

And what software do you think phpBB uses to manipulate images? *chuckles*

Author:  rainwarrior [ Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Nebs & Debs Prequel

I have started a new thread for preview GIF corruption discussion, so we don't clutter dullahan's thread any further:
https://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=14868

Author:  thefox [ Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Progress Thread - Nebs & Debs Prequel

koitsu wrote:
thefox wrote:
koitsu wrote:
Please see:

Not all that useful, since it was almost certainly phpBB that wrecked the GIF when resizing it down.

And what software do you think phpBB uses to manipulate images? *chuckles*

I don't know or care. What I'm saying is that it's not something that anybody posting GIFs on this forum should have to care about -- it should be fixed on the phpBB side.

(Maybe I misread the intention of your post? I don't know.)

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