Progress thread: Inherent Smile

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tepples
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Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Post by tepples » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:49 am

FrankenGraphics wrote:I think it's a good start, but it didn't get the polish it deserves.
Did anything get enough polish? (Other than Gruniożerca 2 of course)
FrankenGraphics wrote:Throw more time and ROM on it and i think it'll be quite the experience.
That's why we have the post-compo period. But time might be a tad easier to come by than ROM, unless you can (say) combine two 64K entries into one 128K ROM that only actually uses 96K, or unless you think you can flesh it out for a solo cart release (like Twin Dragons from last year).

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tokumaru
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Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Post by tokumaru » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:10 am

This project has a lot of potential, having such great art and gameplay unseen on the platform, so I hope you guys are able to work on it a bit more to deliver a consistent experience to players!

calima
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Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Post by calima » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:44 am

thefox wrote:Is this game PAL only? I'm getting some graphics corruption in NDX when using NTSC.
No, it was targeted at NTSC timings, but mainly tested in fceux, I don't have a NES flashcart. It does seem to slightly go over the vblank during 3d.
pubby wrote:Does the "run" button work? I keep dying to stuff and I can't run away!

I would be interested in hearing how the raycaster works. It looks different than tokumaru's.
Running works, but it's only a 25% chance of getting away. I think the general method is the same as tokumaru's. (tokumaru, I was expecting you to enter too :P where's the promised puzzle raycaster?)
tokumaru wrote:I don't mind the "Tyrannosaurus Tex style" of textured walls (I wanted to see it done on the NES, actually), but the dimensions of the blocks are really inconsistent... You can't see openings very well until you're really close, it looks like things get distorted as you move around. I ended up using the tiny circular map almost exclusively, since it's so hard to tell what's going on in the 3D.

But more surprising than the 3D view itself, is the interface around it. How come this screen looks like a quick MS Paint sketch while the rest of the game has such amazing graphics?
The FOV is 67,5 deg, which may be a bit too wide for 1-meter (block) wide corridors. There's no subpixeling going on, so with the 19 available pixels... IIRC yours did use horizontal subpixels, but it just isn't possible here, mainly due to the map being bitpacked and so each ray step being somewhat costly. The map is pretty huge.

lol @ the description of my art :D With the 3d view taking most of the available tiles, it couldn't be that detailed, and I liked the way it got. Franken didn't like it either, but didn't end up having time to update it.
tepples wrote:Did anything get enough polish? (Other than Gruniożerca 2 of course)
Technically the 3d view is super polished, as I already made it for the 2016 compo, it's had massive optimization to run that well.

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tokumaru
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Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Post by tokumaru » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:31 pm

calima wrote:The FOV is 67,5 deg, which may be a bit too wide for 1-meter (block) wide corridors. There's no subpixeling going on, so with the 19 available pixels... IIRC yours did use horizontal subpixels, but it just isn't possible here, mainly due to the map being bitpacked and so each ray step being somewhat costly. The map is pretty huge.
I think that the FOV is fine, it's the vertical scaling that's off. Walls are too tall when you're far away and too short when you're close. Even if you touch your node against a wall, its entire height matches that of the viewport. You shouldn't be able to see the entire wall if you got your nose up against it. Anyway, the disparity between vertical and horizontal scaling is what's distorting things... The horizontal scaling is correct because the rays are spreading properly and hitting the correct blocks, but passages look narrow from afar because the walls are way too tall. How are you calculating the height of the walls? What I do is divide a constant by the distance from the player to the wall. I try to calculate the value of the constant so that blocks look square when faced straight on, but I end up tweaking it a bit until it looks right to me. There's quite a bit of leeway due to the low horizontal resolution and the console's PAR.
lol @ the description of my art :D With the 3d view taking most of the available tiles, it couldn't be that detailed, and I liked the way it got. Franken didn't like it either, but didn't end up having time to update it.
I don't mean to be rude, but that's solid gray with black lines, that's not art. And it clashes badly against the beautiful art found in the rest of the game. It looks like you have what, around 34 tiles for that GUI? That should be enough for a nice stonework pattern and some decorated borders for the text boxes and the like. That would also fit the game's ambiance much better. The map could maybe be drawn in sepia tones instead and be framed like a traditional fold up map. Just some ideas.

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dougeff
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Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Post by dougeff » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:44 pm

I played it on 800% speed, and cheated A LOT to not die all the time.

The turn speed is WAY too slow. Just turning to look around takes 8 seconds.

The enemies have WAY more HP than you have attack power. When I found the exit, I had an attack power of 5. I was fighting enemies with over 100 HP. That is a slow, slow, slow battle. It was ok at 800% speed. Maybe I was supposed to level up more? Or find some special weapon?

I had no idea where I was. Maybe you could use color to differentiate different areas of the map. Like, start area is green, another area is red, or gray, or darker green.
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FrankenGraphics
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Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Post by FrankenGraphics » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:55 pm

Yeah, 5 attack power is low... you need to look for more chests and use better weapons and cast some spells. If you encounter enemies that are too strong (even if they technically can be defeated), it's better to run and try to find some gear that will boost your attacks, defense and magic. But i'm also going to admit that the time we had for balancing was cut short.
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gauauu
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Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Post by gauauu » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:25 pm

Maybe I need to grind for awhile? I always die fighting the first rat I encounter.

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FrankenGraphics
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Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Post by FrankenGraphics » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:30 pm

Maybe, but chances are... did you know that you can time blocks and crits? If you get the timing right (especially when blocking), the rats will become a lot more manageable.
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gauauu
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Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Post by gauauu » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:10 pm

Huh. Is there a button I'm supposed to press in order to block?

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FrankenGraphics
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Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Post by FrankenGraphics » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:24 pm

Oh, i see it isn't in the blurb. No wonder then that it has been found difficult!

Well it's the same button as confirming. Press it at the right moment when attacking or when being attacked in order to do critical damage or block. It takes a little practice to get it right somewhat reliably. I wanted to text this one way or the other in-game (maybe by enemies showing it is possible by them blocking and criting, maybe with a gauge, maybe with a plain instructional text) or else describe it in a manual, but as it stands, i can see it is currently unintuitive.
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tepples
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Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Post by tepples » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:26 pm

For Action 53, I can include it in the description. Would the following be accurate?

Ⓐ Use/Timed Attack

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FrankenGraphics
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Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Post by FrankenGraphics » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:48 pm

Thanks, tepples! I think that'd be great. :beer:

It's about right, but i wonder how we can make it describe that A is for both timed attacks and timed blocks while keeping it as short?
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lidnariq
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Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Post by lidnariq » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:53 pm

Same terminology as Paper Mario / Mario & Luigi? ("Action command")

... hm, maybe that's too jargon-y.

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FrankenGraphics
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Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Post by FrankenGraphics » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:02 pm

Yeah, paper mario ought to be a perfect parallel, but if you haven't played them (like me), i don't think you would know.

Maybe it's enough to state:

(A) Use/Attack/Block

It leaves the player to figure out whether the crits are because of timed actions or by chance though.

Some more alternatives:

(A) Use/Attack/Block/Crit
(A) Use/Attk/Block/Crit
(A) Use, timed attacks/blocks
(A) Use, attack, crit & block
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dougeff
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Re: Progress thread: Inherent Smile

Post by dougeff » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:31 pm

What, are we paying by the letter?

(as in newspaper advertisements)

Just explain it in a full sentence.

Press the A button at the right moment to dodge an attack, or to increase your attack.
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