NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

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BioMechanical Dude
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by BioMechanical Dude » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:50 am

Sweet Home does have a pretty good story line. The difference here is, that the plot takes place before the game and the main characters investigate what has happened.
rainwarrior wrote:(Would have helped to have an intro of the player characters though. Maybe worth watching 15 minutes of the movie before starting?)
In my opinion, it wouldn't be all that necessary, since they aren't all that important to the plot (besides defeating Mamiya, but that's another thing)
DRW wrote:Games based on movies are cheating. :wink: They take their story from the movie.
I wouldn't say that here. While the basic plot is from the movie, there's a lot more stuff that isn't. There are all kinds of details, characters and events that were never even mentioned in the movie. For example, there's an entire subplot about another group of characters who also tried to investigate what happened, but weren't as lucky as the main characters (I don't want to spoil anything) Also, one of the characters you meet in the game has a very important (plot-related) thing about him that was never mentioned in the movie.
DRW wrote:I'm not so fond of these text adventure/click games.
That sentence kind of bugs me. Maybe you should've mentioned you're looking to play something and that's why you've made this thread. I thought we were just discussing Adventure and RPG games.
But, yeah, Deja Vu has a pretty good story. Once again, most of the plot has happened before the game and it's your job, as a detective, to figure out what exactly happened.

I know these are not Adventure/RPG games, but the Ninja Gaiden Trilogy. You've gotta admit, the plots there were good. There are a lot of twists and turns.
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by rainwarrior » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:16 am

BioMechanical Dude wrote:Sweet Home ...
rainwarrior wrote:(Would have helped to have an intro of the player characters though. Maybe worth watching 15 minutes of the movie before starting?)
In my opinion, it wouldn't be all that necessary, since they aren't all that important to the plot (besides defeating Mamiya, but that's another thing)
It's not critical to gameplay for most of the game but it helps you remember who is who, why each has the tools that they do, and just makes the story more fun. If you can imagine relationships between the characters, it makes their peril more interesting. (And yes, it does kinda come up in the Mamiya battle.)

Here's roughly what I think would help:

A documentary crew enters an abandoned mansion to study the paintings of a famous artist who mysteriously disappeared 30 years ago.

Kazuo - Director of the documentary. Carries a lighter.
Emi - Daughter of Kazuo, on her summer vacation has come to help her father with his work and spend time with him. Carries a key.
Akiko - Kazuo's producer. Kazuo has strong feelings for her, but tries to keep them to himself. Carries a medical kit.
Asuka - Painting restorer. Aloof personality, interested only in her work. Carries a vacuum.
Taro - The camera operator. Makes persistent advances toward Asuka, even though she is disinterested. Carries a camera.

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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by Alp » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:08 am

DRW wrote:Are we talking about a normal-looking girl that just happens to have cat ears that could just as well be interpreted as part of her costume (like Foxxy Love)?
Or are we actually talking about anthropomorphic animals (like Lola Bunny from "Space Jam")?
If it's the latter, then sorry, but no amount of boobs or midriff-baring outfits could turn me on in this situation.
Absolutely no "normal" girls, anthropomorphic characters all the way through! Men, Women, and Hermaphrodites!
(Regardless, I have already taken the liberty of adding scantily-clad dancers to one of the bars. :P)

You may be turned off by the game content, but at least the world is pretty!
It's also quite vast, just for being NROM. I learned some tricks, with my previous NES games.
(Each time period is effectively a completely new world. Only connected by the historical timeline.)

It's fine though, if people don't like this game. They can just NOT play it! :P
DRW wrote:Believe me when I say: You can do a pretty decent and fast game by using C. Don't believe the people that tell you that you absolutely need Assembly for everything, otherwise you will only be able to do "Pac-Man".
Um, no. I'm going to pass on that. I can't stand C as a development language. It's awful.

Besides-- I've already dug out the ASM notes I had written, when I was still working on Cat Quest.
(...and *that* game was 30% complete, when it was scrapped. All hand-optimized ASM.)

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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by Drew Sebastino » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:17 am

Alp wrote:
DRW wrote:Are we talking about a normal-looking girl that just happens to have cat ears that could just as well be interpreted as part of her costume (like Foxxy Love)?
Or are we actually talking about anthropomorphic animals (like Lola Bunny from "Space Jam")?
If it's the latter, then sorry, but no amount of boobs or midriff-baring outfits could turn me on in this situation.
Absolutely no "normal" girls, anthropomorphic characters all the way through! Men, Women, and Hermaphrodites!
(Regardless, I have already taken the liberty of adding scantily-clad dancers to one of the bars. :P)
It's fine though, if people don't like this game. They can just NOT play it! :P
Is your goal to make nobody play this game? :lol:

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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by calima » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:52 am

Now we fight like men! And ladies! And ladies who dress like men!

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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by DRW » Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:51 am

Bregalad wrote:I do not remember the story, at all.
Hm. Interesting. I always thought the story is pretty memorable with plot twist, an active bad guy, people dying, plans failing etc.
Bregalad wrote:You completely left huge parts of the game, notabily fighting against pirates to steal their ships, the long item-fetch quests series in order to finally get the TNT which gives you access to the outer sea, the Bahamut subquest, the airship subquest, and the subquest with the village of Lumpas. The airship is even mandatory technically to finish the game.
But it sound like it's just that: A whole bunch of separate quests. So, you have one straight plot line and a bunch of side lines. Once you're in a side quest, the main objective takes a backseat for a while.
Like in a TV show where the heroes have to reach a certain destination, but in every episode they are sidetracked by some wacky adventure that doesn't really have anything to do with the main plot.

Now contrast this with "Final Fantasy Adventure": Everything that happens to you in this game is tied to your personal story.

For example, in another game, you might have a side quest with a girl whose brother was turned into a bird by some evil guy and you have to get a tear from the Medusa to transform him back.
So, you defeat the Medusa, get the tear, transform the brother back, defeat the bad guy and then the boy and the girl say thank you and you go on with your actual adventure.
Classic side quest.

Now, in "Final Fantasy Adventure", it goes like this:
The brother was turned into a bird, so that the bad guy can force the girl to steal the amulet that you just saved from the main evil guy before he threw you off his airship.
She took the amulet from you while you were knocked-out, but the bad guy broke his word and didn't transform the brother back.
So, you look for the girl, who you already know from the beginning of the game, by the way, and find her in Medusa's cave.
You two try to get the tear of the Medusa, but even though you kill her, she won't drop a tear. But during the battle, the girl was bitten by Medusa and now turns into a Medusa herself. She gives you her tear and asks you to kill her before she becomes a complete monster. You do this and go to the brother and transform him back.
You have to tell the brother that his sister is dead. Then you two defeat the bad guy to get back the amulet. But once you defeat the bad guy, he informs you that the amulet isn't here, but is already with the main evil guy again. So, your quest continues.

This is not just a mere side quest. This is actual plot development of your personal story in the game.

"Final Fantasy" is basically "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", season 1.
"Final Fantasy Adventure" is "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", season 7.

Bregalad wrote:None of this makes the story any more interesting, but it makes the game more interesting as a whole.
Sure, but this is not about general interesting stuff in games, but specifically about plot. After all, pretty much everything in a "Super Mario Bros." game makes the game more interesting despite having a paper thin plot. But this thread is specifically about a good in-game storyline.

Bregalad wrote:I completely forgot about this game, but suddently it came back to my mind. You should absolutely try Just Breed. The game is very good, and has a relatively developped plot for NES standard. The game is very linear, you basically go from point A to point B and then point C and so on, *HOWEVER* you do never know what will await for you next.
O.k., I will have a look at it.

BioMechanical Dude wrote:
DRW wrote:I'm not so fond of these text adventure/click games.
That sentence kind of bugs me. Maybe you should've mentioned you're looking to play something and that's why you've made this thread. I thought we were just discussing Adventure and RPG games.
It's just that I don't consider these "click random items on an artwork and don't pull the wrong lever" adventure games in the same way as "Final Fantasy" and "Zelda".
BioMechanical Dude wrote:But, yeah, Deja Vu has a pretty good story. Once again, most of the plot has happened before the game and it's your job, as a detective, to figure out what exactly happened.
But if the story happened before the game, then the situation in the game itself is pretty static again, isn't it?
BioMechanical Dude wrote:I know these are not Adventure/RPG games, but the Ninja Gaiden Trilogy. You've gotta admit, the plots there were good. There are a lot of twists and turns.
Sure, "Ninja Gaiden" is not bad. But in jump n runs, the story isn't really tied to the game, apart from the fact that the locations match the plot. The game would still work without the cutscenes, so it's just a neat addition.
In "Final Fantasy Adventure", however, you wouldn't be able to play the game without the story. You don't just have a game with some movie scenes, so to say. You play the movie.
But unlike its remake "Sword of Mana", the dialogs are still short enough, so that you still feel like playing a game. (In "Sword of Mana", you literally spend the first 15 minutes just clicking through dialog.)
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by DRW » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:09 am

Alp wrote:You may be turned off by the game content, but at least the world is pretty!
I wouldn't mind if it was a general game with furries or other animal-like characters. But furries that are there specifically for fanservice and sexyness: That's not really my taste.
Alp wrote:It's fine though, if people don't like this game. They can just NOT play it! :P
Don't worry. I won't bitch about the game if it doesn't match my sexual preference.
(Now if you present the game here and ask for opinions and it plays crappy, then I might write you a corresponding review if I feel like it.)
That's why I'm talking about this now and here. But if I see a game with a certain theme, I of course won't write a post in your thread just to tell you: "Hey, what you did in your game isn't what I have the hots for."
Alp wrote:I can't stand C as a development language. It's awful.
Which high level language do you prefer?
(I say high level language because C vs. Assembly is a completely different category of comparison. If somebody is fluent enough to write Assembly code easily, sure, that's always better for NES development. But if you cannot use Assembly and you think C is awful, what language would you prefer?)
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by BioMechanical Dude » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:06 am

DRW wrote:It's just that I don't consider these "click random items on an artwork and don't pull the wrong lever" adventure games in the same way as "Final Fantasy" and "Zelda".
True, but they are still adventure games. Also, I wouldn't classify RPGs as Adventure games... but then again... Adventure games originated from tabletop RPGs... huh. Still, I wouldn't simply dismiss them from this discussion.
DRW wrote:But if the story happened before the game, then the situation in the game itself is pretty static again, isn't it?
Yeah, but it's interesting to discover what happened, because as with a plot that would be taking place throughout the game, you never know what you'll find next.

Also, I don't mean to be offensive, but you seem to be getting picky with this. The game should be an RPG, it shouldn't be licensed, the plot should be taking place during the game... do we really need all that for a great story?
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by DRW » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:47 am

BioMechanical Dude wrote:do we really need all that for a great story?
Well, if the question is: "Which game has a story that actually happens during the game and isn't just the prologue or some non-interfering cutscenes", then yes: Then only the games whose stories happen during the game and aren't just the prologue or some non-interfering cutscenes count.

Everybody can write a good plot and put it in the manual.
You could invent a "Game of Thrones"-like epic backstory for "Pac-Man". This doesn't change the fact that the game itself presents zero story.

Have you ever read the plot canon guide for the "Street Fighter" series? That's a more than 100 pages long document that retells each and every detail of the storyline and the overall canon.
Yet, when you have the game itself, what do you get? Two cutscenes and a bit of text per character.

Or take the latest "Mortal Kombat" games: Those are complete movies. A movie based on "Mortal Kombat", like the one from 1995, is totally unnecessary in today's time because the game itself already brings its own movie with it.
And yet, the battles are no different from the same game without the story.

So, yeah, you can make a great storyline and put it outside the game and the game wouldn't be any worse.
But this thread is specifically about games where the story unfolds during the gameplay and where it is relevant for the gameplay.

"Final Fantasy" for example feels like a world frozen in time where you walk up to people and they give you a task or do something. But apart from the intro chapter, it never feels like an actual living world. The pirates don't suddenly attack the town while you're talking to the mayor. They stand there, as if they have been waiting for you the whole time.

Now compare this to "Final Fantasy Adventure":
www.youtube.com/watch?v=di5Vhk3AEUc&t=42m25s
Watch this and see what happens after two minutes from that scene.
From a technical point of view, it's no different than other games: The events are of course action-triggered. If you walk around in the town for an hour, the whole stuff won't happen until you go to that old man. But from a dramaturgical point of view, it feels like a living world.
You cannot compare this with the cutscenes in "Ninja Gaiden".
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by Drew Sebastino » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:56 am

Also, I don't mean to be offensive, but you seem to be getting picky with this.
I was about to say something, but I forgot that you're fairly new here. :lol:

Edit: Actualy, no you're not. I guess I just never realized you because of the name change or something. :oops:

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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by Bregalad » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:18 am

But it sound like it's just that: A whole bunch of separate quests. So, you have one straight plot line and a bunch of side lines.
Definitely.
Now, in "Final Fantasy Adventure", it goes like this:
The brother was turned into a bird, so that the bad guy can force the girl to steal the amulet that you just saved from the main evil guy before he threw you off his airship.
She took the amulet from you while you were knocked-out, but the bad guy broke his word and didn't transform the brother back.
So, you look for the girl, who you already know from the beginning of the game, by the way, and find her in Medusa's cave.
You two try to get the tear of the Medusa, but even though you kill her, she won't drop a tear. But during the battle, the girl was bitten by Medusa and now turns into a Medusa herself. She gives you her tear and asks you to kill her before she becomes a complete monster. You do this and go to the brother and transform him back.
You have to tell the brother that his sister is dead. Then you two defeat the bad guy to get back the amulet. But once you defeat the bad guy, he informs you that the amulet isn't here, but is already with the main evil guy again. So, your quest continues.
Probably it was too complex so I just lost track. I should play it again I guess.
BioMechanical Dude wrote: But if the story happened before the game, then the situation in the game itself is pretty static again, isn't it?
No, because you have to discover what actually happened, and it's just as interesting.

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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by Alp » Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:42 am

Espozo wrote:Is your goal to make nobody play this game? :lol:
Does that really matter at all? I only make games for fun, on the side.
So the success of a project, is not based on how many people play it.

Of course, this a *porn* game, so people will likely play it, regardless!
"If you build it, they will come." In this case, in more ways than one. :P
calima wrote:Now we fight like men! And ladies! And ladies who dress like men!
Don't forget, the ladies who are packing something a little extra! :wink:
DRW wrote:I wouldn't mind if it was a general game with furries or other animal-like characters. But furries that are there specifically for fanservice and sexyness: That's not really my taste.
Dude, it's PORN. There's no room for fan service, here. It's ALL pure smut! :P
DRW wrote:Don't worry. I won't bitch about the game if it doesn't match my sexual preference.
(Now if you present the game here and ask for opinions and it plays crappy, then I might write you a corresponding review if I feel like it.)
That's why I'm talking about this now and here. But if I see a game with a certain theme, I of course won't write a post in your thread just to tell you: "Hey, what you did in your game isn't what I have the hots for."
That's fair enough.
So long as you don't call me a "pedophile" for my art, I think we'll get along fine.
(The NintendoAge community did exactly that, so I quit homebrew back in October.)

This game plays like Crystalis, as the closest comparison. With a fair amount of sexual content built-into the main game mechanics.

For example: When the lady knight's armor durability is 0, it shatters Ghosts N' Goblins style, opening her up to enemy advances. She has a lust stat, that increases over time, caused by her magic-endowed penis. The best course of action? Beat them down, and then beat them off. Not necessarily in that order! :P

The mechanic of having sex with NPCs, provides a temporary stat-boost in combat, and lowers lust to 0. Some NPCs may be impregnated, increasing the population in every future time period. (It also has an important story element, to some degree, but... spoilers.)

My NROM gameplay prototype has been coming along nicely so far, though, we have decided to expand to a Mapper, because the final boss design is HUGE. (A mysterious astral entity, known as "Dark Phallus" :P)

Sega fans will get that joke.
DRW wrote:Which high level language do you prefer?
(I say high level language because C vs. Assembly is a completely different category of comparison. If somebody is fluent enough to write Assembly code easily, sure, that's always better for NES development. But if you cannot use Assembly and you think C is awful, what language would you prefer?)
I didn't say that I don't know assembly, I mentioned that I was rusty at it.
The 6502 syntax always manages to throw me off, whenever I come back to it.
Luckily, I have hand-written notes, from last time.

I've made 2 complete NES games, they were just never released, for the reason listed above. They were:
1.) An adult-themed SonSon parody (made for a friend's birthday, and put on a SINGLE cartridge)
2.) An all-ages Bubble Bobble clone, featuring a cute witch girl (written from start-to-finish in 5 hours, just for fun). This one was set for a public Halloween ROM release, that just didn't happen.

The object logic in our game, is about 70 bytes of optimized Assembly, and it's done.
It's really more of a query system, though. Manipulating objects by their "requested" states, rather than what their exact primary state is. It's... complicated, but it's both fast, and compact.

The Player, NPCs, and Enemies, all make use of this code, for per-frame updates.

...and, if it matters-- My preferred method of coding is RUBY. It's nice for prototyping modular code, quickly.
DRW wrote:Now compare this to "Final Fantasy Adventure"
Now, that game is interesting. It started as the largest(!) Famicom game ever made, which was eventually cancelled.

It was ported to the gameboy, and polished up, before being re-branded as "Final Fantasy" in the West, despite being the first Mana game in the series. It had about 6 years of development time, overall. Possibly more.

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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by DRW » Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:16 am

Alp wrote:
DRW wrote:I wouldn't mind if it was a general game with furries or other animal-like characters. But furries that are there specifically for fanservice and sexyness: That's not really my taste.
Dude, it's PORN. There's no room for fan service, here. It's ALL pure smut! :P
O.k., let me rephrase it:
But furries that are there specifically for porn: That's not really my taste.

Make a porn game with human characters and I might have a look.
(Although even then I don't really see the purpose of doing an eight bit low resolution porn game. If I want to play a game for the gameplay, then porn isn't important to me. If I want porn on the other hand, there are plenty of better sources than an NES game. But if it has human female characters in it, I would have a look.)
Alp wrote:So long as you don't call me a "pedophile" for my art, I think we'll get along fine.
(The NintendoAge community did exactly that, so I quit homebrew back in October.)
If they call you a pedophile for drawing anthropomorphic animals, they obviously don't know what the word means. Unless of course the animals were supposed to be children.
Alp wrote:For example: When the lady knight's armor durability is 0, it shatters Ghosts N' Goblins style, opening her up to enemy advances. She has a lust stat, that increases over time, caused by her magic-endowed penis. The best course of action? Beat them down, and then beat them off. Not necessarily in that order! :P
Remove the penis from the woman and make her a human instead of, what, a fox or a wolf? Then I might enjoy the cutscenes. Otherwise, I'll probably have a look at the game for 10 seconds and put it aside immediately.
Alp wrote:...and, if it matters-- My preferred method of coding is RUBY. It's nice for prototyping modular code, quickly.
Isn't that one of those langauges where you mistype a variable name and instead of getting a compiler error, you have just created a new variable?

What did they say about it again? Something like: "The correctness of variables can be ensured by testing."
Wow! Now that's a good alternative to the machine telling you your errors: You can just manually test the whole thing.
You know, the stuff that you have to do anyway to ensure logical correctness: You can now extend this for syntax checks that could, in theory, be done by the computer itself. Isn't that just as good as a clear compiler error?

Also duck typing: I hate duck typing. I hate it so much.
The connection between classes and types should never depend on the question what the function happens to be called by name.
So, Class1.Calculate and Class2.Calculate would be compatible to each other even if the classes have nothing to do with each other. But Class1.Calculate and Class3.Calc wouldn't.
And as soon as I rename stuff in a class, the complete scope changes.

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."
--> What a bullshit analogy. Duck typing in a programming language never checks if it quacks like a duck. It just checks if it can quack at all. So, according to duck typing, a marathon walker and a word processor are the same because both can "run".

Also the Visual Basic-like syntax. I hate Visual Basic with a passion. So, every language that looks like it is automatically suspicious to me.

That's why I prefer the C-based languages:
More elegant syntax. (O.k., C++ has some ugly-ass stuff in its class and template declarations, but C and C# are very clean.)
And clear data types and you're forced to properly declare your variables.

The only real design flaw in C that I see is the fact that, for some reason, the == operator has a higher priority than the & operator: x & y == 3 is interpreted as x & (y == 3) (which basically means (x & (y == 3)) == true) instead of the more logical (x & y) == 3.

And yes, they could have made the header files optional, letting the linker collect all references and potentially create an error message if a variable is indeed undeclared. Even Assembly lets you declare a variable in one module and use it in another without having to make the variable known everywhere.
Alp wrote:It was ported to the gameboy
It wasn't "ported". Since the Famicom game was probably never started at all, the Game Boy game shares nothing but the name and is therefore a completely different game than what the Famicom version would have become.
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by Drew Sebastino » Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:39 am

DRW wrote:Make a porn game with human characters and I might have a look.
Agreed. :lol:
DRW wrote:Although even then I don't really see the purpose of doing an eight bit low resolution porn game. If I want to play a game for the gameplay, then porn isn't important to me. If I want porn on the other hand, there are plenty of better sources than an NES game.
Also agreed. There's Google for that. :lol:
DRW wrote:Remove the penis from the woman and make her a human instead of, what, a fox or a wolf?
That's actually the least hot thing imaginable.
DRW wrote: I'll probably have a look at the game for 10 seconds and put it aside immediately.
I'd be running to the toilet. :lol:

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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by Alp » Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:30 pm

DRW wrote:Make a porn game with human characters and I might have a look.
(Although even then I don't really see the purpose of doing an eight bit low resolution porn game. If I want to play a game for the gameplay, then porn isn't important to me. If I want porn on the other hand, there are plenty of better sources than an NES game. But if it has human female characters in it, I would have a look.)
Well, I was in the middle of working on a NES-restricted porn game with humans, when I quit from the homebrew scene, and I've since released a second game as well. Both sold more than 2000 units in their first few weeks of sales, after release. (Windows-based)

The furry collaboration, is the result of wanting to try something new. The last game put a bad taste in my mouth. (It had to be patched for difficulty, to make it easier, or it would have been removed from the market. Modern gamers are lame.)

Why not make NES porn games? With some clever coding, you could use all 512 tiles for a 256x240 background image. Allowing for quite a high level of detail on the NES. Not as low resolution, as you'd think! :wink:
DRW wrote:If they call you a pedophile for drawing anthropomorphic animals, they obviously don't know what the word means. Unless of course the animals were supposed to be children.
They called me a pedophile, based purely on an artstyle. The characters were re-designed "chibi" to suit the NES restrictions. They are most certainly adult characters.
DRW wrote:Remove the penis from the woman and make her a human instead of, what, a fox or a wolf? Then I might enjoy the cutscenes. Otherwise, I'll probably have a look at the game for 10 seconds and put it aside immediately.
She's a feline, actually. :P

...and her penis is relevant to the plot. The game concept wouldn't work with a regularly-gendered character. (Jizzabelle is also the great-great-great-grandfather of Aika, the main character from Cat Quest.)
DRW wrote:Isn't that one of those langauges where you mistype a variable name and instead of getting a compiler error, you have just created a new variable?
I've never encountered a problem like that, in more than 13 years of using RUBY. Perhaps it's a compiler-specific problem?
DRW wrote:It wasn't "ported". Since the Famicom game was probably never started at all, the Game Boy game shares nothing but the name and is therefore a completely different game than what the Famicom version would have become.
On the contrary, the Famicom game was completely finished, but, due to cost and timing (late FDS), it was shelved. The games share both the story, and overall game mechanics.

@Espozo
...Rude.

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