NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

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DRW
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by DRW » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:27 am

Fisher wrote:Sorry to don't read all the other posts but was Crystalis cited?
I don't think so. But I'm not looking for such a game anymore because I'm in the works of doing exactly this kind of game.
Fisher wrote:I've found this game to be pretty good back in the day.
This is not just about a game being good. ("Super Mario Bros." is good as well, so yeah.)

This is specifically about the plot: How complex is the in-game story of "Crystalis"?
My game "City Trouble": www.denny-r-walter.de/city.htm

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Fisher
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by Fisher » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:44 pm

As a kid I've found it pretty complex.
Now it don't see that much.
Basically you're an warrior that wakes up without remembering even your name in a post apocalyptic world where technology has vanished and magic now rules.

You must find your way to defeat an evil empire army by finding itens, specially the 3 swords and it's accessories.
There are some quests that I've found interesting and even got stuck thanks to the language barrier back in the day.

I don't remember much of the details of the history. I think I'll play it again on this carnival's holiday, so my memory will get refreshed. :-)

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koitsu
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by koitsu » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:20 pm

@DRW - Play the game and find out how complex the plot is, if "plot complexity" is what you care about. I likewise don't understand how you can say "I'm doing exactly this kind of game" if you've never played it. Quit trying to "sell" yourself around here and brag about your games -- it makes you insufferable.

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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by Sour » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:40 pm

DRW wrote:Is this your source:
http://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201610030007
Article wrote:ディスクシステムで発売予定だった「聖剣伝説」が発売中止になった経緯に関する質問も。のちにゲームボーイで発売された「聖剣伝説」とはまったく異なる内容のもので、大きな話題となったが坂口氏は「ディスクシステムでやるには企画が大きすぎた」と回答。結果、開発が無限ループにハマってしまって、いつまでたっても完成しない状態になってしまったため打ち切られたと当時の内情を明かした。
Translation for the benefit of people who don't know German:
He answered questions about the "Seiken Densetsu" game that was meant to be released for the FDS but was cancelled. The game was completely different from the "Seiken Densetsu" that was eventually released on gameboy. Sakaguchi said the project was too ambitious/large for the FDS. He revealed that because of this, the game got stuck in development hell (litt: "endless loop"), was never completed and eventually got cancelled.
So basically, sounds like while a decent amount of dev went into the FDS game, it wasn't anywhere near being ready for a release.

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DRW
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by DRW » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:41 pm

koitsu wrote:I likewise don't understand how you can say "I'm doing exactly this kind of game" if you've never played it.
Sigh. Seriously? You didn't get that statement of mine?

I was saying that I'm doing the game that I was asking for, dammit. I'm doing a game like "Final Fantasy Adventure", which I did play. I never said or imlied that I'm doing a game like "Crystalis". Jeez.
koitsu wrote:Quit trying to "sell" yourself around here and brag about your games -- it makes you insufferable.
While people criticize me of all sort of things, you're literally the first person to tell me this specific thing.

First of all, in how far do I "brag" about the game? Did I praise its quality? No. I simply said that the original intention of this thread is outdated since I'm not looking for this kind of game anymore (the reason for digging it up was about an unrelated sub topic, namely the FDS version of "Seiken Densetsu") and I do my own story-heavy game instead, just like I did with the game with the female protagonist.

Secondly: In how far do I try to "sell" myself? The game will probably not come out for another two years. It doesn't even have a title that anybody might remember. Do you really think I mentioned my game because I expect Fisher to constantly check for its release from now on?

Why is it suddenly bad to mention work in progress games? I don't see you complaining about the fact that tepples references "Haunted Halloween" in every second development thread. (I.e. instead of saying "You could do this and that kind of compression", he says: "The Curse of Possum Hollow uses this and that kind of compression.")

Here we have this situation again: I'm getting accused of a certain behavior that was never an issue before with any other person.

Here, go to any of these 118 posts and tell tepples that constantly mentioning his game makes him insufferable if that's really your opinion:
https://forums.nesdev.com/search.php?ke ... or=tepples

Do it. I dare you.
But you won't, will you? The idea that mentioning a certain game is insufferable bragging is a thing that you pulled out of your ass literally five seconds before you wrote it because it's me you're talking to. You never held this opinion anytime before.
My game "City Trouble": www.denny-r-walter.de/city.htm

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DRW
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by DRW » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:22 pm

Fisher wrote:You must find your way to defeat an evil empire army by finding itens, specially the 3 swords and it's accessories.
There are some quests that I've found interesting and even got stuck thanks to the language barrier back in the day.
Well, now there's the question: Are you just doing static quests? Or is the story actually updating as you go along?

For example, in "Final Fantasy", you have to save a village from pirates. But the thing is: This is not an event that is shown live. The pirates don't suddenly attack while you're in the village. Instead, you enter the village and the people tell you that pirates are here. So, you find that one pirate NPC that you talk to and you fight him and that's it.
There no sense of immediateness. The situation looks like the pirates have been there forever.

Unfortunately, that's the case with most of these games. You talk to a random person and she tells you that her brother got lost in a cave. So, you go and rescue him.
But not only is this plot completely unrelated to your main quest. It's also a static event: The brother getting lost is not something that happens due to any other events that happened before. It's just a static situation. Basically as soon as you start the game, the brother is already missing.


In "Final Fantasy Adventure" when Amanda gets missing, it's because the bad guy threw you off his airship while you were carrying the special amulet. Amanda stole it from you and then went missing.
Later, you find out that she stole the amulet because her brother was turned into a bird by some local tyrant. And he demanded the amulet to turn her brother back.
When she gave it to him, he didn't keep his word, so she now must find a tear of the Medusa to turn her brother back. So, you find her in the cave.
You defeat the Medusa with her, but she gets bitten by the Medusa and turns into a medusa herself. You have to kill her before she becomes a monster.
Then you go to the brother and transform him back and fight the local bad guy. But his eagle has already broght the amulet back to the main bad guy, so your adventure continues.

And when monsters occupy a city, it happens right in the moment when you yourself are in that city: First it's peaceful, then you enter a temple, then some guy comes to you and says they're under attack.
And the attack isn't random, but it's because you have the girl with the amulet with you and the bad guy is looking for that very girl, so it was your presence that made the monsters attack in the first place.

This kind of plot feels alive. Like a real on-going story where actions have consequences.

In most adventure games, you're a neutrum in a static world full of open quests. And then you simply do these quests one after another.
But "Final Fantasy Adventure" is a real story with real actions and consequences. You and the bad guy are constantly interacting with each other.

That's what I was looking for on the NES. But since I didn't find such a game, I'm doing my own.
Last edited by DRW on Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:34 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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DRW
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by DRW » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:25 pm

Sour wrote:Translation for the benefit of people who don't know German:
He answered questions about the "Seiken Densetsu" game that was meant to be released for the FDS but was cancelled. The game was completely different from the "Seiken Densetsu" that was eventually released on gameboy. Sakaguchi said the project was too ambitious/large for the FDS. He revealed that because of this, the game got stuck in development hell (litt: "endless loop"), was never completed and eventually got cancelled.
So basically, sounds like while a decent amount of dev went into the FDS game, it wasn't anywhere near being ready for a release.
Thanks for the confirmation.

Well, I'm really curious if Alp will ever write here again to further enlighten us about that finished prototype that the Game Boy game is a direct port of and that not even the developers remember anymore, but that was definitely mentioned on a Japanese gaming website like the one I linked.
My game "City Trouble": www.denny-r-walter.de/city.htm

ndiddy
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by ndiddy » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:35 pm

not gonna lie, trying to continue an online argument after three years is pretty sad.

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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by tepples » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:41 pm

I've seen sadder perennial arguments, but that's a story for a different domain (or perhaps for PMs).

The question of my describing the architecture of the Haunted games has been taken to another topic.

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DRW
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by DRW » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:57 pm

ndiddy wrote:not gonna lie, trying to continue an online argument after three years is pretty sad.
I didn't "continue an online argument". I provided a Japanese gamer website link about this specific topic and I wanted to know if this is the site he was referring to.

Alp said that the FDS version of "Seiken Densetsu" was completely finished. If this was true, then it would be of interest to this community since this means we might find a prototype some day, like people did with the "Sim City" prototype.

If he had now said: "Yes, the link you provided is the one I was talking about", then we would have known that he made a mistake since this specific site claims the opposite.

But if he had said: "No, I'm talking yet about another website", then he might have found it by now again and we could have investigated it.
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Fisher
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by Fisher » Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:43 am

Sorry for the long delay.
As you supposed, Crystalis has no dynamic events.
The few games that I remember having these kind of events are Dragon Ball Z - The legend of Super Sayajin, for the SNES, but the fights are not on the "action" side, since the game uses cards to choose how your character will behave.
Another one is Breath of Fire 3, for PS1 wich I'm not very sure but if I'm remembering correctly there's a part where you have the option to go into a fight and save a tiger guy who later becomes an ally.
I also think Xenogears, also for PS1 has some kind of interaction wich can change a little the history, but I'm not totally sure.
As I stated before, I think I'll use this hollyday to play some older games and refresh my memory, just hope I'll not need to fix a ton of stuff to get them working.
Hope I have helped a little.

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darryl.revok
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by darryl.revok » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:20 am

Has anyone mentioned Grand Master? It's a story-driven Famicom action RPG.

I'm not going to get caught up in, "it's disqualified because of X" or any other arguments, but if anybody does come to this thread in search of the type of games described in the topic, this would likely be a good one to check out.

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DRW
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Re: NES action adventure or RPG with good storyline

Post by DRW » Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:25 pm

"Grand Master" is kind of story-driven, but as far as I see it, it's more the common way of including cutscenes between the levels, like in "Ninja Gaiden", "Astyanax", "Vice - Project Doom" or "Moon Crystal".
It's not story-driven in the way "Final Fantasy Adventure" is, where the actual in-game situations reflect the current story status.

Cutscenes are pretty much the easy way out. After all, I could even invent stuff for "Super Mario Bros." if I wanted to: Every time Mario enters a castle, I could invent a dramatic twist of events. And someone else could invent a totally different kind of story for exactly the same gameplay.

But having a game world that is designed with the story in mind, that's the interesting way.

Stuff like: If I go to the inn before I find the guy in the cave, then the guy will of course not be in the inn.

Or the fact that you have to carefully plan your map, so that the natural flow of events leads you through the game. That you are prevented from going to certain places before the time is right or that you can go there, but won't find anything yet.
Or if you can only have one companion at once, you have to design your story and world, so that it's not possible to find a companion while another companion is still in your party.

A cutscene-based story is easy: Ryu Hayabusa has to go to South America. So, they show a cutscene of a plane and the next level plays in South America. But for story-driven gameplay, you need to find a method where the character can board a plane when it's time, but he's somehow prevented from doing so when it's too early.
My game "City Trouble": www.denny-r-walter.de/city.htm

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