It is currently Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:44 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:18 am
Posts: 13
Location: USA
Last year I did a book just on Officially Licensed NES games, which was the set I was completing at the time. After finishing both SNES books this year, the first thing I'm going to do next year is go back to the NES and finish out all the different aspects to that library in a followup book. The book will be called "NES Oddities, Rarities and Obscurities: Games You Haven't Played" and will cover everything not in my first book. So Unlicensed, PAL Exclusives, Grails, Major Variants, English-Friendly Famicom/FDS and finally the NES Homebrew Revolution. That's where I think nesdev members will be the most helpful, as here and NintendoAge is where NES Homebrew thrives. Here are my thoughts for the Homebrew Section:

Do an introduction explaining what NES Homebrew games are, misconceptions and a history of how the community has evolved over the past 14 years.
Interviews with Homebrew developers, musicians, artists, etc.
Definitive highlights of the homebrew games available to collect (In the same format as the Complete NES with box art, screenshot, summary etc)
Quick listing of everything else available to play. (think ROMs and smaller game releases that haven't been made available to all gamers)
Section for limited edition releases, showing the creativity in some of these projects as this is a unique aspect to NES homebrews
Finally, an "on the horizon" section with highlights of upcoming games per developer (think Nintendo Power PAK Watch, with 1-2 pages per developer with quick previews with screenshots if available)

I want this to be something special that will basically blow the casual reader's mind! This is why I feel that incorporating this in to the NES Oddities book is essential as it will allow many more people to become aware of these games and help raise NES Homebrew awareness, instead of just catering to the currently niche community. Combine that with the homebrew box set I'm doing and having all the games available for purchase individually, and I hope that this will help out everyone in the community!

Let me know what you think and any recommendations that you have. I haven't set anything in stone yet, but I do have everything pretty much written for all the sections but the Homebrew Games.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:59 pm
Posts: 1467
I think this is a great idea. It's definitely something different from all the other NES-related books.

When shall this book be released?

_________________
Available now: My game "City Trouble".
Website: https://megacatstudios.com/products/city-trouble
Trailer: https://youtu.be/IYXpP59qSxA
Gameplay: https://youtu.be/Eee0yurkIW4
German Retro Gamer article: http://i67.tinypic.com/345o108.jpg


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:18 am
Posts: 13
Location: USA
DRW wrote:
I think this is a great idea. It's definitely something different from all the other NES-related books.

When shall this book be released?


Thanks!

The plan is to take the book to Kickstarter after the holidays and all the SNES books (from my previous project) have been mailed out. By then it'll almost be completely finished too, so people who get a copy won't have to wait too long for their books.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:28 pm
Posts: 3192
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
thesubcon3 wrote:
Last year I did a book just on Officially Licensed NES games, which was the set I was completing at the time. After finishing both SNES books this year ...

Where can I read about these "SNES books"? Did they involve coverage of homebrew, etc. or were they just books about officially licensed SNES games?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:18 am
Posts: 13
Location: USA
koitsu wrote:
thesubcon3 wrote:
Last year I did a book just on Officially Licensed NES games, which was the set I was completing at the time. After finishing both SNES books this year ...

Where can I read about these "SNES books"? Did they involve coverage of homebrew, etc. or were they just books about officially licensed SNES games?


They are at www.tinyurl.com/snesbacker and you can preorder and also see the original Kickstarter too. There are two books and I not only cover licensed, but PAL exclusives, grails and definitely homebrews!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:28 pm
Posts: 3192
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
thesubcon3 wrote:
They are at http://www.tinyurl.com/snesbacker and you can preorder and also see the original Kickstarter too. There are two books and I not only cover licensed, but PAL exclusives, grails and definitely homebrews!

Thanks! I skimmed through this, including the Kickstarter updates, and I don't see anything in either of the SNES books that have what your upcoming NES one will have. Specifically these two:
Quote:
Do an introduction explaining what ... Homebrew games are, misconceptions and a history of how the community has evolved over the past 14 years.
Interviews with Homebrew developers, musicians, artists, etc.

Are these essentially new topics/subjects for your upcoming NES Oddities book (i.e. no equivalent for the SNES)?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:18 am
Posts: 13
Location: USA
koitsu wrote:
thesubcon3 wrote:
They are at http://www.tinyurl.com/snesbacker and you can preorder and also see the original Kickstarter too. There are two books and I not only cover licensed, but PAL exclusives, grails and definitely homebrews!

Thanks! I skimmed through this, including the Kickstarter updates, and I don't see anything in either of the SNES books that have what your upcoming NES one will have. Specifically these two:
Quote:
Do an introduction explaining what ... Homebrew games are, misconceptions and a history of how the community has evolved over the past 14 years.
Interviews with Homebrew developers, musicians, artists, etc.

Are these essentially new topics/subjects for your upcoming NES Oddities book (i.e. no equivalent for the SNES)?


Correct, I didn't go into details on what a homebrew is as much in the Complete SNES. I did a quick 2 page intro and then showed all the SNES Homebrew games, including upcoming ones. With the NES Oddities book I want the NES Homebrew section to be a large part of it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:16 am
Posts: 583
The lack of SNES homebrew is in large part due to the lack of tools. If there was a hypothetical KS for a proper SNES compiler, would you take part?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:18 am
Posts: 13
Location: USA
calima wrote:
The lack of SNES homebrew is in large part due to the lack of tools. If there was a hypothetical KS for a proper SNES compiler, would you take part?


Exactly right! There are just not enough tools and tutorials to make the SNES something that can be approachable. Heck even the NES, that has tons of tools, is extremely difficult for a novice programmer like me to tackle.

As for a SNES compiler, I think it would definitely be a good idea and a move in the right direction!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19251
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
I'd consider putting a few bucks toward a 65816 C compiler under a free software license, to help both the Super NES scene and the Apple IIGS scene.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:28 pm
Posts: 3192
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
calima wrote:
The lack of SNES homebrew is in large part due to the lack of tools. If there was a hypothetical KS for a proper SNES compiler, would you take part?

I always get a bit sensitive when people claim this, because it's stuff that's being said by folks who weren't around in the very early 90s where there was a very active snesdev scene. The short of it: there are tools available, for both PC (MS-DOS) and Amiga. The former don't happen to work on present-day PCs because that's how Windows has evolved.

I still keep some of the tools *I* used back in the 90s. Note the timestamps.

Code:
2016-08-02  14:22    <DIR>          .
2016-08-02  14:22    <DIR>          ..
2016-04-25  00:16           193,556 65816_20.lzh
1995-07-16  12:16                81 AE.CFG
2010-08-10  16:50           111,616 Atlas.exe
2010-08-10  18:03            72,079 Atlas.pdf
1996-11-16  13:04             5,952 BIN2DB.EXE
1997-07-02  09:28            65,536 BUTTONS.DAT
1998-07-19  18:44            11,748 cdxa.exe
1997-04-16  18:00             3,157 CHR2PCX.DOC
1997-04-16  18:00            88,806 CHR2PCX.EXE
2015-02-02  08:33           614,912 compress_tools.exe
2015-01-27  00:37         3,277,312 disasm6.exe
1995-11-27  08:34             8,872 DOS32.EXE
1999-07-04  07:37           265,396 DOS4GW.EXE
1994-03-30  16:06            42,633 DSPC.EXE
1996-11-16  08:16            18,960 GFXCONV.EXE
1993-07-12  17:30            37,845 GIF2SNES.EXE
1993-11-24  13:05            47,630 GIF2SOPT.EXE
1997-12-24  09:20            40,960 GRAPHICS.RAW
1993-08-05  09:30             9,025 IPS.EXE
2014-07-25  09:08            11,776 liteips.exe
1995-07-16  18:03            10,581 PATCHMK.EXE
1997-04-16  18:00             3,523 PCX2CHR.DOC
1997-12-30  15:57           150,016 PCX2CHR.EXE
1998-03-07  16:22             7,328 readchar.exe
1984-12-13  17:51            14,054 SGIF.EXE
1995-04-11  14:47             8,913 SGR.EXE
1996-01-01  11:39            11,185 SNESTL12.DOC
1999-01-11  16:27            23,978 SNESTL12.EXE
1980-01-14  10:22            15,775 TLAYER.EXE
1980-01-14  06:28                48 TLAYER.PAL
1980-01-15  06:55             7,439 TLAYER.TXT
1997-04-24  11:13            11,288 TRACER.DOC
1997-04-24  11:08            12,432 TRACER.EXE
1996-01-02  08:34            38,447 TSF.EXE
1996-01-02  08:34            19,968 TSF2.EXE
1994-07-18  18:40            55,834 UCON.EXE
1995-11-08  15:15            18,337 UCON14.DOC
1999-01-11  16:23            93,126 VGS.EXE
1997-04-10  17:10            40,766 x816.doc
1997-04-09  10:40            84,672 X816.EXE
              40 File(s)      5,555,562 bytes

There's this constant "if we had the tools, people would be doing SNES homebrew more!" mantra that's being chanted. The biggest annoyance right now is that a 65816 cross-assembler other than WLA DX isn't available for present-day x86/x64 OSes. I'm still trying to get in contact with Norman Yen, author of x816, to see if he has the Pascal source so I could port it to C and thus provide native Win32 builds.

But really, let's face it: absolutely nothing stops someone from firing up DOSBOX, putting all these DOS utilities on there, mapping a directory on the host (i.e. physical computer) to a directory on the guest (i.e. a directory inside DOSBOX) and going to town. If people were able to make games like this with such tools back then, nothing stops someone from doing it now. People just want "more convenience" (hint: YYCHR actually supports some SNES graphics formats -- I see YYCHR and I think "Goddamn, I sure wish we had that back in 1992!"), but nobody takes the time to actually develop them. (For graphics, I actually did most of my work by hand in an .asm file, manually typing in all the .db statements and so on. This was because I couldn't get my hands on a good graphics editor for DOS that did PCX. I'm not much of an artist either, but I at least give it my best.

Sorry for the soapbox rant. It's compounded with the fact that someone should really track down all of us original snesdev folks in the 90s, get us all together, and interview + talk to us as a group. I think most of us haven't spoken in nearly 20 years, but it'd shed a lot of light on how things were "back then". We aren't on our death beds quite yet you know. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19251
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
I made an equivalent to PCX2CHR in Python, called pilbmp2nes, so that's not quite the problem. (Despite the name, it handles multiple CHR formats.)

But the NES has cc65, and at least one game in each of the two volumes of Action 53 so far has been written mostly in C: Zooming Secretary in the first volume and Chase in the second. So is one of the Russian Roulette games coming soon for NES. What tools for C (not assembly language) are in that directory listing? And would a revived x816 handle SPC700 as well?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:16 am
Posts: 583
koitsu wrote:
I always get a bit sensitive when people claim this, because it's stuff that's being said by folks who weren't around in the very early 90s where there was a very active snesdev scene. The short of it: there are tools available, for both PC (MS-DOS) and Amiga. The former don't happen to work on present-day PCs because that's how Windows has evolved.

I'm talking specifically about a C compiler (or even C++), just like tepples mentions above. AFAIK no file in your listing is a compiler. This is what prevents me from coding for the platform - I'd be able to learn 65816 asm just fine, but writing an entire game in asm is a complete waste of my time. It's also a significant entry barrier preventing new homebrew devs from starting. (Yes, I know of the bad ones. They don't count, they're that bad, fully valid C can break if you look at them wrong.)

Graphics tools are a non-issue, I'd write what would be needed. Music used to be an issue until SNESGSS.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:47 pm
Posts: 331
Location: FL
koitsu wrote:
The biggest annoyance right now is that a 65816 cross-assembler other than WLA DX isn't available for present-day x86/x64 OSes.


snescom exists, and is pretty good; it's what the sd2snes project uses to assemble the menu ROM.

cc65 doesn't support the 65816, but ca65 does, apparently.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:36 am
Posts: 2981
Location: Tampere, Finland
Revenant wrote:
cc65 doesn't support the 65816, but ca65 does, apparently.

Yeah. For sufficiently simple projects one could even use cc65 to generate code for the 65C02 emulation mode of 65186. (I have used cc65 for this in my own simple SNES tests.)

_________________
Download STREEMERZ for NES from fauxgame.com! — Some other stuff I've done: kkfos.aspekt.fi


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ap9 and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group