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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Pokun wrote:
King Koopa is described as Daimaou Kuppa (大魔王クッパ) in the manual, which means Great Demon King Kuppa (a very common title for villains in fiction). It does say they are capable of powerful magic, but so does Peach who is the only one that can counter the curse. Koopa is a turtle demon that can probably do demon magic but I think wizard sounds a bit weird. Where did they say he is a wizard? In the English manual they just say they are using black magic.

But yeah besides turning the Mushroom people into bricks in SMB they don't seem to use a lot of magic anymore? Koopa uses things like power stars in SM64 to create new worlds or the star rod in Paper Mario and so on, but I don't remember him using his own magic.


I'll take some pictures from my manual when I get the chance... it's kind of worn, I read the hell out of it as a kid.
One other thing it mentions that I remember clearly is how all the people of the mushrom kingdom have been turned to stone by said magic, so when Mario is breaking the blocks he's supposedly freeing them or something?
I thought it was really cool when they kinda revisited that in the Nintendo Power comic by Charlie Nozawa, which was also brought in magazines over here:
Image

In general, that comic was all kinds of cool, and works surprisingly well with where Nintendo have taken the Super Mario "canon" since then.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:10 pm 
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Sumez wrote:
One other thing it mentions that I remember clearly is how all the people of the mushrom kingdom have been turned to stone by said magic, so when Mario is breaking the blocks he's supposedly freeing them or something?

About this topic, there's another stupid fan theory floating around:
"The manual says that Bowser turned the mushroom people into stone. This means Mario is killing hundreds of them when he smashes the bricks. Mario is a mass murderer!!!!!"

No, he's not. If these morons had simply read the whole manual, they would have seen that not every random block in the game is supposed to be a Mushroom Kingdom resident, but only the blocks that contain an item (with the items being the people turned back to their normal selves):
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:59 pm 
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So I guess Nintendo just didn't have the resources at the time to show a Toad jumping out of every ? block as the power-up sprouted, as Sonic Team would later depict in Sonic games when enemies are defeated.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:57 pm 
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I don't know whether this was just technical limitations or whether the trapped characters were supposed to actually look like simple mushrooms. The official artwork of the game where Mario is holding a Super Mushroom seems to imply the latter.


Although I don't know who came up with the idea that the items are actual characters. That's pretty stupid anyway.

Is this even still canon?

I mean, in the later games, the items are obviously just items, not transformed mushroom- and star-shaped people.

So, was the idea that Bowser transformed them retconned or does this still count for SMB1? As in: "The mushrooms are usually items, but in this specific adventure, Bowser also transformed Mushroom Kingdom residents into Super Mushrooms and Fire Flowers."

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Aren't the Mario games to this day still putting dotted eyes on nearly every inanimate object? :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:31 pm 
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Well, since this went over reasonably well last time:

http://brawlinthefamily.keenspot.com/comic/142-stumble/


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:28 am 
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tepples wrote:
So I guess Nintendo just didn't have the resources at the time to show a Toad jumping out of every ? block as the power-up sprouted, as Sonic Team would later depict in Sonic games when enemies are defeated.


We were better at using our imagination back then. :) I used to read every manual and take everything at face value. The graphics were merely a guide.

I never believed the items were the mushroom people, though. I'm pretty sure the manual just means these items were given to you by the people that you free.
I did believe that all bricks were transformed mushroom people though. That was my explanation for why destroying them gives you points.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:31 am 
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Jedi QuestMaster wrote:
Aren't the Mario games to this day still putting dotted eyes on nearly every inanimate object? :lol:

Right. That's why it's not much of a problem to assume that it's just an item. But the Super Mushroom, the Fire Flower and the Star being actual citizens that exist next to Toad-like mushrooms? Strange.

Sumez wrote:
I used to read every manual and take everything at face value. The graphics were merely a guide.

I would prefer: Reading it at face value and taking the graphics at face value too.
So, as long as it's not retconned: Yes, the Mushroom Kingdom consists of humans, Toad-like mushrooms with arms and legs, sentinent mushrooms with eyes but without arms and legs, living stars and living flowers.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:35 am 
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Sumez wrote:
I never believed the items were the mushroom people, though. I'm pretty sure the manual just means these items were given to you by the people that you free.

I assume Miyamoto never invented that storyline and the whole transformation thing was written by someone else.
It was discarded as soon as SMB3 came out, so I would say that it's just an oddball in the manual (not even in the game itself) and can be disregarded as part of the story: Bowser never turned the mushroom people into bricks. Just like in every other game, he simply kidnapped the Princess and you have to rescue her, relying on the items that simply lie around everywhere anyway.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:31 am 
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Yes, although I definitely don't take everything at face-value as everyone should know by now, I also think the bricks was placed in the game during the development before they had thought of an explanation. Then someone thought they should explain the bricks and even the horse-tail plants in the backstory.
As a kid I was first confused that the mushroom and other items are actually the people of the Mushroom Kingdom but I thought it's also possible that they simply gave you the power up items and disappeared, or they are the hard yellow bricks that remain. Also don't forget the coin blocks, I don't think the coins are supposed to be people. The empty brick blocks could simply be mushrooms that have no power to give, but the 50 points you get symbolizes their gratitude for freeing them.
But already in SMB3 blocks are just mysterious item containers or have other functions, as new blocks where introduced, and with no explanation of their origin. So that got to be the canon now.

The Japanase manual say パワーをくれる仲間達 (Friends/allies that gives power) instead of "Mario's friends". Otherwise the text is pretty much the same, and still uses the word "renga" (bricks). It uses "disappear" instead of "invisible" though, and that's most likely about the invisible blocks. The items have different names however. They are: kinoko (mushroom, not magic mushroom), flower (not fire flower) and star (not starman, that's a Mother enemy). However in the picture below where we can see how Mario transforms from the power ups, the names super kinoko and fire flower are used, the star is still just star though.

Clearly the Mario world wasn't 100% defined in SMB1, so many things in its story doesn't match with later games. I think the Super power up is part of those things that was forgotten/ignored (although it survived in the manuals in later games).

BTW the 7 mushroom retainers are all called Kinopio in the Japanese manual, I guess it's a common name for mushroom people after all. Well that should explain why there's many games that don't have a distinguished Toad, and Captain Toad may very well be a separate character.

I have to say that I always loved that everything had eyes like that though. And it was reflected in the Voyager comics where the bushes and trees even talked to each other. I think it's too bad that it's not used as much in 3D Mario games. It's what makes the Mushroom Kingdom feel like the Mushroom Kingdom.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:39 am 
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Pokun wrote:
Yes, although I definitely don't take everything at face-value as everyone should know by now, I also think the bricks was placed in the game during the development before they had thought of an explanation. Then someone thought they should explain the bricks and even the horse-tail plants in the backstory.

Yeah this is the case for almost every game at the time. Some things would become canon, others would be discarded immediately. Once again, the developers really don't care, and never had a reason to. :P

I'm pretty sure Miyamoto himself only ever cared about stuff that had a genuine influence on the gameplay and the player's immediate impression of the game world. So the mood and feel of the stage is important, but the explanation for the blocks you jump into obviously isn't. Also, what kind of guy Mario is matters - he's the good willed every-day guy. But you also don't want to give him too much personality or backstory. Something Nintendo has been able to uphold even since, for example by never giving him any piece of dialogue larger than "than-a so much-a for playing my game".


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:26 am 
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I think he wanted something like the Popeye cartoon (well that's confirmed actually). I mean, although the Popeye characters all have a detailed backstory from the comics they origin in, the focus isn't on story in the cartoons, it's always very simple. So while he care that Mario characters have a story (Donkey Kong is one of the first games with an actual story as I said before), Miyamoto doesn't want to take it too far by creating a whole universe with detailed laws and history.

I don't think I've ever seen Mario having a real dialogue line in any official game, unlike Luigi. In the Mario & Luigi RPG series both Mario and Luigi are silent protagonist though. They have grunts and shouts but it's really no different from Link's grunts in recent Zelda games.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:56 pm 
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Bowser's size inconsistencies in "Super Mario Odyssey" are literally on "Simpsons" levels of ridiculousness:
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:05 am 
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I always called Bison in SF2 (DOS), Mister Bison. Up to this day, I dont even know whats his name.

Me being 6 years old, thought that since Guybrush Threepwood wanted to be a pirate, I needed to play the game taking bad decicions to be taken to jail, and then free Otis. Turns out, thats what you need to do in MI2 (be a douche to everyone)

I thought Mario Andretti for DOS was a Mario Kart which finally was released on PC ! Lucky there was 100% piracy back then.

Piracy actually, is the only way to get games in my country, and some of the catalogues from the nineties were incredible. What I regard as the best video game ever made, was described as "Adventures in antarctica", I got that game and was waiting for Indy Jones to reach the south pole. Of course that never happens on Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis (Atlantis and Antarctica being spelt almost the same on my language)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:23 am 
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DarkMoe wrote:
I always called Bison in SF2 (DOS), Mister Bison. Up to this day, I dont even know whats his name.

In Japan, this is of course a non-issue: The names of three of the Grand Masters have been switched around, so the boxer is Mike Bison, the Spaniard is Balrog and the dictator is Vega.
I.e. the M never had a meaning for the dictator since this wasn't even his name.

As far as the Americanized version is concerned: In "Street Fighter Alpha 3", he's often called Master Bison. Before that, the meaning of the M was never specified.

DarkMoe wrote:
SF2 (DOS)

If you really associate this game with DOS, then I feel sorry for you. Because that version sucks major ass.
(Assuming you're talking about the original "Street Fighter II". "Super Street Fighter II" and "Super Street Fighter II Turbo" for DOS are quite decent.)

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