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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:34 am 
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This doesn't sound like the best of plans.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:58 am 
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Oziphantom wrote:
No. You don't have the right by some law or whatever to play these games, they don't have to sell them to you, and you don't have to play them. If they do sell them then "yay, awesome" pick it up and play to your hearts content. If they don't then that is their choice and it sucks, but that's life.

So should players be treating unavailable games like they never existed? If so, people ought to judge video game developers only on the quantity and quality of available games, not that of unavailable games. If none of a particular company's games are available, that company deserves zero prestige for having developed any games.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:44 pm 
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tepples wrote:
The difference is that the entire movie industry has adopted one high-definition physical format as an industry-wide standard: Blu-ray Disc. This was preceded by another industry-wide standard-definition format: DVD. Pretty much any brand of video disc player that you buy nowadays will play both formats, and desktop computers can also play DVD. Thus a movie released in DVD format will hit basically 99% of video disc players currently in use. Any movie publisher can release movies in the dominant format upon payment of a uniform royalty, and notable movies that have been released in neither are few and far between. And though DVD preceded BD, a 20-year DVD collection still works on every BD player.

Compare this to video games, where most formats have only one brand of player, backward compatibility with previous formats is an afterthought at best, and companies routinely release games exclusive to one format as a way to sell a particular company's players. The only notable multi-brand video game formats I've seen are 3DO, CD-i, Windows PC, and Android, only two of which became popular among users. It's as if the format wars from the launch of consumer videotape (VHS vs. Betamax) and high-definition video discs (BD vs. HD DVD) were playing itself out over and over.


This doesn't have any baring on my argument at all. However to your point, Capcom have now released Mega Man 1-X5 on Steam, which is basically the standard you speak of. I can still put a Diablo II disk into my PC and have a play. I could even put my PS1 disc into my PS2 3 or 4 and still play it. Great, doesn't solve the fact that my 8mm copy of Laurence of Arabia doesn't work on my Blu-ray player. Nor does my VHS copy of the Riddle of the Sands.

Game companies do release their games on more modern platforms. Taito collections, SNK collections, Konami Collection, Capcom collections, Sega let you buy it game by game if you want.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:52 pm 
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tepples wrote:
So should players be treating unavailable games like they never existed? If so, people ought to judge video game developers only on the quantity and quality of available games, not that of unavailable games. If none of a particular company's games are available, that company deserves zero prestige for having developed any games.

If we were to really do it as we were supposed to by game companies, yes we should do that. That means that for me living in Europe, one of my favorite game, Chrono Trigger, never existed until its (largely inferior) DS release in the late 2000s.


Last edited by Bregalad on Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:53 pm 
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tepples wrote:
Oziphantom wrote:
No. You don't have the right by some law or whatever to play these games, they don't have to sell them to you, and you don't have to play them. If they do sell them then "yay, awesome" pick it up and play to your hearts content. If they don't then that is their choice and it sucks, but that's life.

So should players be treating unavailable games like they never existed? If so, people ought to judge video game developers only on the quantity and quality of available games, not that of unavailable games. If none of a particular company's games are available, that company deserves zero prestige for having developed any games.
There is no PAL SNES Chrono Trigger, it doesn't exist. Does Chrono Trigger exits, sure I've read many a review of it, people speak of, tell me how great it is. Doesn't mean I don't believe the game exists just there is no PAL SNES version of it.
Just because I haven't seen every Leonardo Di Caprio film, doesn't make him any less of an actor, doesn't mean I don't view him as a good actor.

If you want to play the game, and you can get a copy of the game, great go ahead, enjoy all your want. But there is nothing that says you deserve to be given, have or be able to buy one.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:55 pm 
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two posts made at the same time on a forum that both bitch about no PAL Chrono Trigger - what are the chances XD


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:53 am 
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No PAL Chrono Trigger ruined my christmas in 1995. Never forget.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:28 am 
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Oziphantom wrote:
two posts made at the same time on a forum that both bitch about no PAL Chrono Trigger - what are the chances XD

I belive we were both pissed about it. There was also no FF1,2,4,5,6 before the 2001 PlayStation re-releases (awfully lower quality except maybe fore 1&2), and no FF3 before the DS release (which barely ressembles the original), no PAL Chrono Cross nor Legend of Mana before PS Store (I think ?) and no PAL Legend of Mana, nor Seiken Densetsu 3 (the latter having the particularity of not being releaed in the US as well, pissing off lots of people).

And for those games who were released in PAL territory, the translation in French was either missing or of awful quality, limiting the access to the game for people not speaking any English, like myself back then.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:14 am 
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The magazine here "Nintendo Magazine System (NMS)" reviewed the Japanese version, 4 pages, waxed lyrical about everything, then a couple of months latter.. errr sorry no PAL release...

However WE got Terranigma and the US didn't HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:46 am 
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Bregalad wrote:
no PAL Chrono Cross nor Legend of Mana before PS Store (I think ?)

Nope. Still no Chrono Cross nor Legend of Mana in Europe.

Quote:
And for those games who were released in PAL territory, the translation in French was either missing or of awful quality, limiting the access to the game for people not speaking any English, like myself back then.

You might argue that the large quantity of people in Europe not speaking English was the direct cause of Europe not getting said titles. :) I remember the magazines around here (who had an editor very much into RPGs) often whining about Germany refusing to learn English :P


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:22 am 
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Oziphantom wrote:
However to your point, Capcom have now released Mega Man 1-X5 on Steam, which is basically the standard you speak of. I can still put a Diablo II disk into my PC and have a play. I could even put my PS1 disc into my PS2 3 or 4 and still play it.

Almost. PlayStation 4 does not play PlayStation, PlayStation 2, or PlayStation 3 game discs, as Sony Interactive Entertainment chose the PS4 as its "flag day" to break media backward compatibility. Only a few titles can be repurchased, and playing most of those requires an Internet connection capable of streaming interactive video, which means satellite Internet is impractical. The Gaikai-descended streaming capability is an exception to the general rule that consoles are better suited for rural Internet than the Steam store.

For Sony, the "flag day" was PS4. For the movie industry, it was DVD.

Oziphantom wrote:
Great, doesn't solve the fact that my 8mm copy of Laurence of Arabia doesn't work on my Blu-ray player. Nor does my VHS copy of the Riddle of the Sands.

Game companies do release their games on more modern platforms.

Though some do, others do not, instead expecting players to wait decades for a remake that barely resembles the original. And even those that do rerelease their back catalogs don't necessarily rerelease a comprehensive selection. As far as I'm aware, the movie studios have a better track record on rereleases in industry-standard, long-term-supported modern formats than do the video game publishers, and my point that you said "doesn't have any baring on my argument at all" explains some of why this is the case.

Oziphantom wrote:
Just because I haven't seen every Leonardo Di Caprio film, doesn't make him any less of an actor, doesn't mean I don't view him as a good actor.

I wasn't referring to those films that you happen to have seen or not, as much as those that are reasonably available for you to see. A movie that nobody can reasonably watch, or a video game that nobody can reasonably play, might as well never have been produced.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:02 am 
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It is a shame about the PS1 support on the PS4.. I just got a PS3 and I forgot just how bad SONY were.... Apparently the PSN has a download limit, and they don't tell you how many times you have downloaded it...

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A movie that nobody can reasonably watch, or a video game that nobody can reasonably play, might as well never have been produced.

Wha..... So Casablanca is a total waste of a film then. When it was mode the only way to see it was for the people who saw it at the cinema, for those few weeks it was on. They should have waited the 40 years until the VCR came along and it was easy and practical for people to enjoy watching it when ever they wanted? Every game on the NES(that was released) has been seen and played. Its purpose was to be played by owners of the NES console, just as Casablanca was made to be viewed by people who lived near a Cinema. Even Star Wars was made with this "it will only be seen at a cinema" approach, but yes we can still get them because the movie industry has been nice and decided to convert most of the films it made to more modern and convenient forms. My point is, they a.) don't have to, b.) you don't have an right to see anything they made, or have not converted to a modern form. For a more Modern equivalent see Neon Genesis Evangelion. There is no re release, you either have to get the original VHS or the "platinum" collection. Nobody has a right to see it, there is no argument to force Gianax to re-release or allow the English version to be released again. However it had purpose, it is meaningful to have existed.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:05 am 
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Oziphantom wrote:
So Casablanca is a total waste of a film then. When it was mode the only way to see it was for the people who saw it at the cinema, for those few weeks it was on.

Yes, prior to home video, I consider enforcement of exclusive rights in a film that wasn't regularly rereleased or exhibited on television to be a waste.

Oziphantom wrote:
Every game on the NES(that was released) has been seen and played. Its purpose was to be played by owners of the NES console

How can a comparative review of two video games be accurate if one of them is not available to reviewers?

Ultimately the question is this: If the owner of copyright in a given work is no longer exploiting it commercially, how does continuing to enforce exclusive rights in that work "promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts", as the U.S. Constitution puts it?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:04 am 
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Sumez wrote:
You might argue that the large quantity of people in Europe not speaking English was the direct cause of Europe not getting said titles. :) I remember the magazines around here (who had an editor very much into RPGs) often whining about Germany refusing to learn English :P

If they're whining about Germany, god knowns what they think of France. Until the advance of Internet and games in the early 2000s, it was rare to find people speaking any English there. On the other hand, western Germany is IMO the European country the most influenced by the United states, probably because of the cold-war occupation. As a result English knowledge there is comparatively high.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:48 am 
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I was always told by people who visited France that French people showed a certain resistance against English, and weren't very friendly when tourists spoke that language.

As far as Brazil and video games go, we were lucky if we got a translated manual in black and white! That was the most we'd get with official releases, and we were fine with it. I never liked RPGs, so I never really needed to learn English in order to play video games, but I remember friends asking their parents for help, and sharing their discoveries with other kids so they could also advance in their adventures. To us, it was a well accept fact that video games were in English, and there was nothing we could do about it.

TecToy did eventually release a few translated titles for the SMS and the Mega Drive, but quality was all over the place... For example, I own an Yuu Yuu Hakusho game released by TecToy for the Mega Drive, but the character names have been shortened to occupy the same space as the Japanese names did, and sometimes the game will randomly switch back to Japanese. It's a pretty crappy translation, but the anime was on TV and they probably thought Japanese wouldn't be as well received as English by Brazilian kids.


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