Antivirus software (was: Request to all of you dev'rs)

You can talk about almost anything that you want to on this board.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Banshaku
Posts: 2334
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:38 pm
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
Contact:

Post by Banshaku » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:54 pm

tepples wrote:I use ClamWin, setting it to scan everything weekly.
I didn't know about this one, great! Have they been around for a while?

Thanks for the tip, will try it soon. As long that I can run scan on demand and not services in the background, I'll be happy.

tepples
Posts: 21971
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
Contact:

Post by tepples » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:26 pm

ClamWin doesn't have "resident" scanning. In fact, the antivirus nag "feature" of Windows XP Service Pack 2 and later and Windows Vista doesn't detect ClamWin for exactly this reason. The only thing that stays resident about ClamWin is its scheduler, which sits in the taskbar taking negligible CPU and RAM.

User avatar
BMF54123
Posts: 409
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:52 am
Contact:

Post by BMF54123 » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:48 pm

Getting a fresh XP installation exactly how I want it takes much, much longer than a little routine maintenance on an existing installation (backup drives, defrag, clean out unused stuff by hand, don't get infected with malware). It's entirely possible to keep Windows running indefinitely if you know what you're doing.

I think the majority of people that reinstall Windows on a monthly basis (not necessarily you, tokumaru) are too lazy to bother with such maintenance, or extremely reckless in their online activities, or both. Just because their systems are bogged down with malware, leftover files, and other crap does not mean everyone's system will end up like that.

I take pride in the fact that I've never had to deal with a malware infestation on any of my machines, and I didn't need McAfee or Ad-Aware chewing on my CPU to accomplish that.

User avatar
Banshaku
Posts: 2334
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:38 pm
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
Contact:

Post by Banshaku » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:23 am

BMF54123 wrote:I think the majority of people that reinstall Windows on a monthly basis (not necessarily you, tokumaru) are too lazy to bother with such maintenance, or extremely reckless in their online activities, or both.
I don't reinstall often but the major cause are because of some rogue software that I tried decided to break one part of my registry and when removed didn't clean-up everything properly or some driver decided to wreak havoc on my system. I rarely get any malware installed on my system if any. When I can, I try to fix my machine before zapping it.

But in most case, when a system is crippled with malware, this is mostly because of the recklessness in a user's online habit, my father being a good example at that :lol: He must be reinstalling every week these days... I'm sooo happy to be in Japan and don't have to "fix" that machine anymore.

User avatar
tokumaru
Posts: 11691
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:43 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Post by tokumaru » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:37 am

BMF54123 wrote:I think the majority of people that reinstall Windows on a monthly basis (not necessarily you, tokumaru) are too lazy to bother with such maintenance, or extremely reckless in their online activities, or both. Just because their systems are bogged down with malware, leftover files, and other crap does not mean everyone's system will end up like that.
I guess you are right. Even though I follow the "if it's bogging down, format it!" philosophy, I manage to only do it only once a year or so.

I'm actually a very careful guy when it comes to my PC. Like I said, everything that is potentially dangerous is done in a virtual machine first. The same goes for software I'm not sure I want to keep and for software I know I'll use only once, to keep left overs on my real system to a minimum.

So my own PC doesn't really bog down, but I still format when I see it has too much old software, shows ANY sign of virus infections and things like that, because I want my system clean. I don't really have a customized windows installation, but I have all my drivers and such well organized, so I don't mind spending a couple of hours a year setting everything up.
Banshaku wrote:I rarely get any malware installed on my system if any. When I can, I try to fix my machine before zapping it.
I HATE fixing! Once I worked in support, and I simply hated it. Also, when you study computer science, all your friends and family seem to think you know everything about computers, and will ask you all kinds of favors, including fixing extremely bogged down PCs...! This is partially where my hate for bogged down PCs comes from, because most people somehow manage to trash their PCs in no time.
I'm sooo happy to be in Japan and don't have to "fix" that machine anymore.
Heh, that's exactly the problem! I don't mind doing some maintenance on my own PC, but this is something I find extremely annoying. I do it for the family, but I really don't like it. I have an aunt that loves to ask me about sofware I never used... over the phone, what's worse. Don't you hate when you have to guide over the phone someone that can't tell a left click from a right one? It takes hours to accomplish the most basic tasks.

Roth
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:15 pm
Contact:

Post by Roth » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:50 am

tokumaru wrote:Don't you hate when you have to guide over the phone someone that can't tell a left click from a right one? It takes hours to accomplish the most basic tasks.
Man, this is a pet peeve of mine. I finally got to the point where I just tell family members and friends that I have no clue how to fix *insert problem that isn't really a problem here*. It's so hard to try and tell someone how to do stuff over the phone, so I just end up saying I don't know what to do for them. Kind of a cop-out, but when you actually do help people, they keep calling back WAY too often for the stupidest, most simple things. It gets to be too much of a chore when it really shouldn't be.

User avatar
Bregalad
Posts: 7879
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:49 pm
Location: Chexbres, VD, Switzerland

Post by Bregalad » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:00 pm

I use ClamWin, setting it to scan everything weekly.
Yes I also use it but it's always trying to update it's database on each boot even when internet is not present which is annoying. Aside of that it's a great AV that doesn't annoy too much like Avast does (and I uninstalled it). At least it does't make a red alert for YY-CHR.

And yes it's true that most machines with Windows are getting regularly slower. I don't know why at all, but it often is. I don't want to reinstall the whole system regularly. I avoid putting anything important on C: (I have mostly programms I can re-download or re-install), but some programms like Eclips almost requires you to put your files in the same directory as the programm.

Also I'm proud and glad to have Win2k. XP is too slow and often crashes (don't know why it got that much popular), while Vista is plain terrible I've heard. 98 also crashes all the time, 95 and older can't browse the web.
Only Win NT4 and Win2k are left, and 2k is the most recent of them. I'd say it's my favourite OS ever, and I don't care what anyone says (95 were great back then too).
If it's getting really too old one day I'll switch to Ubuntu, but it is not as good when it comes to drivers and you always have to download pieces of programms I've hard.
I HATE fixing! Once I worked in support, and I simply hated it. Also, when you study computer science, all your friends and family seem to think you know everything about computers, and will ask you all kinds of favors, including fixing extremely bogged down PCs...!
At least I can be glad that I've decided to study electronics instead (and take computers science courses as well). But when people gives you broken devices and expect you to repair them it's not way better.
Life is complex: it has both real and imaginary components.

User avatar
Jarhmander
Formerly ~J-@D!~
Posts: 497
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:36 am
Location: Rive nord de Montréal

Post by Jarhmander » Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:00 pm

Strange reply, Bregalad, because everyone I know — including myself — say that XP is far more stable than anything (from Microsoft), except Vista which is for the moment a bit heavy, and Win2K as the worst OS ever. Bah i don't know win 2K, but I never saw a bluescreen on XP (except those by a special screen saver that display them ;)

atari2600a
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:25 pm
Location: Earth, Milkyway Galaxy, The Universe, M-Theory
Contact:

Post by atari2600a » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:06 pm

I loved Win2K, but software kept blacklisting it despite its kernel being virtually identical to WinXP Pro, so I was eventually forced into an upgrade. The only time I got BSoD was when I REALLY overclocked! :P

Code: Select all

          *=$0000
loop      JMP loop
          .eof

User avatar
tokumaru
Posts: 11691
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:43 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Post by tokumaru » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:10 pm

~J-@D!~ wrote:and Win2K as the worst OS ever.
You gotta be mistaking it for Windows ME. That thing crashed every 5 minutes. Win2K is actually quite stable, probably as much as XP. I prefer XP though, it fixed some annoying things 2K had.

Bregalad, did you know you can disable most of XP's eyecandy (the "round" interface, the transparencies, etc) and have it look a lot like 2000 and be much lighter than usual? It is true that lots of new software require XP, so you will soon need to upgrade anyway.

I'm trying to get rid of Windows, because there is no way in hell I'm switching to the monstrosity that is Vista. However, I just can't seem understand such basic things of Linux, like installing a device driver. For now I'm hoping some day I'll get it, so I'm already getting used to all sorts of open source Linux software that is also available for Windows, instead of the proprietary stuff.

I ditched Photoshop for GIMP, CorelDRAW for Inkscape, M$ Office for OpenOffice... hopefully that will make my transition easier when I finally manage to make the switch.

User avatar
BMF54123
Posts: 409
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:52 am
Contact:

Post by BMF54123 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:01 am

atari2600a wrote:I loved Win2K, but software kept blacklisting it despite its kernel being virtually identical to WinXP Pro, so I was eventually forced into an upgrade.
Isn't that infuriating? It's the exact same reason I upgraded to XP! :x

In my case, ATi's video driver packages suddenly stopped working in 2K right around version 7.4 (I think?)--they'd just throw up an "unsupported OS" error and quit. (A major architectural change in a minor version update? Bullsh*t!) Not surprisingly, all ATi really did was make a small change to the .INF file, and twiddling with it a bit will allow the drivers to install and work just fine in 2K. Of course, I didn't discover this until after I had upgraded... :roll:

Now, I'm actually pretty happy with XP's features and stability, but I still don't appreciate being forced into an upgrade I didn't really want or need. Instead of outright "removing" Win2K support, why didn't ATi just add an OS check that pops up a warning dialog, stating that the drivers are untested/unsupported and any problems you encounter are entirely your fault? Do you think maybe MS "convinced" them to drop support, in their own devious little way...?

As for bluescreens, the only one I've gotten in recent memory was a result of running one of Pixel's (the Cave Story guy) music editors through my Audigy 2--it crashed HARD. God bless Creative and their wonderful drivers!

User avatar
Banshaku
Posts: 2334
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:38 pm
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
Contact:

Post by Banshaku » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:10 am

BMF54123 wrote:
atari2600a wrote:I loved Win2K, but software kept blacklisting it despite its kernel being virtually identical to WinXP Pro, so I was eventually forced into an upgrade.
Isn't that infuriating? It's the exact same reason I upgraded to XP! :x
Same thing here. I still have that Win2K CD lying in a drawer, accumulating dust...

If you look at their name, Win2K was called NT5 and XP -> NT5.1... They are virtually the same, except for some change in the way driver are handled (signed thing) and some improvement in the sound handling, which I forgot what.

I wanted to try it again but when I bought my new machine, it didn't recognized the hard drive, controllers, anything, even with the appropriate driver for SATA drive. Even the chipsets drivers were not supported.. Since Win2K support is already over we have to forget about it with new hardware.

And if by any chance (or mistake), you bought a recent game then you won't be able to run it too.

I think I have to get used to windows XP for now. I tried vista 64 at work and once it decided to fail, I just removed the partition and went back to XP.

User avatar
jargon
B&: This is not your blog
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:40 pm
Location: 480/85260
Contact:

Post by jargon » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:11 am

most linux users for home systems reinstall linux or recompile the kernel on a regular basis.

i do pretty much the same with win32 xp home sp3.

so who's any better off?
Cheers,
Timothy Robert Keal alias jargon

Image
Miser's House Anthology Project

tepples
Posts: 21971
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
Contact:

Post by tepples » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:19 am

Bregalad wrote:
I use ClamWin, setting it to scan everything weekly.
Yes I also use it but it's always trying to update it's database on each boot even when internet is not present which is annoying.
That can be unchecked easily.
Also I'm proud and glad to have Win2k. XP is too slow
Windows XP seems slower than Windows 2000 on a machine with the same amount of RAM because it starts more services. Once you turn off the Luna theme and the extra services, they're almost exactly the same codebase.
and often crashes
In my experience, Windows XP is equal in quality to Windows 2000, again because they're both Windows NT 5.x.
(don't know why it got that much popular)
Preinstalls, for one. That's the only reason Vista is getting popular.
If it's getting really too old one day I'll switch to Ubuntu, but it is not as good when it comes to drivers
It is if you research your computer before buying it. Unfortunately, the poor selection of complete computers in some brick-and-mortar computer stores and some store managers' paranoia against rebooting with a live CD make this difficult.
and you always have to download pieces of programms I've hard.
Unlike Windows, "Add/Remove Programs" on Ubuntu can actually add programs. If you install a program through this package manager, it will download all the pieces for you.

Otherwise, Windows has exactly the same problem. Some programs require the .NET Framework or Java player or whatever, and you have to install those pieces before you install the program. Other programs for Windows just include pieces like GTK+ in the installer, and having multiple versions of a single piece installed on one computer can cause conflicts.
BMF54123 wrote:why didn't ATi just add an OS check that pops up a warning dialog, stating that the drivers are untested/unsupported and any problems you encounter are entirely your fault?
Perhaps the Windows logo program forbids showing "no warranty" dialog boxes: the OS is either compatible or incompatible.
Banshaku wrote:and some improvement in the sound handling, which I forgot what.
The big change to audio in Windows XP that I can think of relates to digital restrictions management, a scheme used by publishers of copyrighted works to deter some forms of copying. It's called Secure Audio Path, which lets a Windows Media file require that its audio be played only through drivers with a Windows logo. It also requires drivers not to play Secure Audio Path audio through cleartext digital outputs.

User avatar
Bregalad
Posts: 7879
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:49 pm
Location: Chexbres, VD, Switzerland

Post by Bregalad » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:08 am

Now, I'm actually pretty happy with XP's features and stability, but I still don't appreciate being forced into an upgrade I didn't really want or need. Instead of outright "removing" Win2K support, why didn't ATi just add an OS check that pops up a warning dialog, stating that the drivers are untested/unsupported and any problems you encounter are entirely your fault? Do you think maybe MS "convinced" them to drop support, in their own devious little way...?
I wouldn't be surprised if MS payed some companies to get things uncompatible with Win2k. Not that long ago, Win98 was the standard and I was one of the only to have the brand new Win2k.

Righ now, Win XP is the standard and I'm the only one to still have the "old" Win2k altough I don't consider it old at all, I guess I'll keep using Win2k for at least 10 years, I don't buy new software anyway I just download it. I dobt any tools to make console games will be made unavailable for 2k on purpose, and if newer Firefox updates aren't compatible with win2k I'll keep using the last version that is. It's true it would be a shame not being able to play newer PC games, but there is still lots of old PC games available arround.

And I'm suprised everyone tells that XP is that stable, beacuse on the my dad's machine where he installed XP I used before getting my own new computer (and still ocasionally use), it was really slow and often crashed. It seemed it was common that Windows woud "freeze" for 10 seconds not reacing to any key presses or mouses clicks. I never seen such a thing on 2k. And 2k is the only Windows along with 3.1 never crashed a single time for me.

I have Linux installed at scool and it looks 99% like Windows, depsite what everyone says. There really isn't much differences at all.
Unlike Windows, "Add/Remove Programs" on Ubuntu can actually add programs. If you install a program through this package manager, it will download all the pieces for you.
Yes this sounds really great. This is the only thing that make we maybe want to switch to Ubuntu someday.

PS : In fact what I say about Win2k isn't totally true. When I try to open a folder from a device that isn't connected (network or USB key), it really is freezing and this is really annoying. I don't know why it just don't tell "connexion unavaiable" instead of keeping trying again a million of times and freezing. However I doubt XP or Vista fixed that problem.
Life is complex: it has both real and imaginary components.

Post Reply