Hi-Def NES HDMI Adapter for the NES

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geddon_jt
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Re: Hi-Def NES HDMI Adapter for the NES

Post by geddon_jt » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:15 pm

Noah98 wrote:Anyone still getting visual glitches with Blaster Master? (the actual cart, not from a flash cart.). Even with the update, I still get garbage characters like 0's on the title screen.
I do too. Hadn't tried the game until you mentioned it.

guitarzombie
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Re: Hi-Def NES HDMI Adapter for the NES

Post by guitarzombie » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:15 am

Im not sure why they didnt try to test every game, or do a beta and have people test ever game. Unless thats what they're doing now?

qwertymodo
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Re: Hi-Def NES HDMI Adapter for the NES

Post by qwertymodo » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:35 am

There are 713 licensed games and 114 unlicensed games, and that's just US releases. Not to mention homebrew. To fully test every game manually would take longer than it did to develop the thing in the first place. Software development is an iterative process, and with reconfigurable hardware, the same is largely true for hardware development as well. It's not like we're sending a rover to Mars here and we have to get it right the first time or the whole thing goes up in flames.

tepples
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Re: Hi-Def NES HDMI Adapter for the NES

Post by tepples » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:39 am

qwertymodo wrote:To fully test every game manually would take longer than it did to develop the thing in the first place.
Yet we can probably safely assume Nintendo ran the 713 licensed games through lot check on the toploader (model NES-101).
qwertymodo wrote:It's not like we're sending a rover to Mars here and we have to get it right the first time or the whole thing goes up in flames.
I guess it might relate to the cost of a recall.

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mikejmoffitt
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Re: Hi-Def NES HDMI Adapter for the NES

Post by mikejmoffitt » Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:24 pm

tepples wrote:
qwertymodo wrote:To fully test every game manually would take longer than it did to develop the thing in the first place.
Yet we can probably safely assume Nintendo ran the 713 licensed games through lot check on the toploader (model NES-101).
I'm willing to bet they didn't fully test them all the way through.

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Re: Hi-Def NES HDMI Adapter for the NES

Post by rainwarrior » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:46 pm

tepples wrote:
qwertymodo wrote:To fully test every game manually would take longer than it did to develop the thing in the first place.
Yet we can probably safely assume Nintendo ran the 713 licensed games through lot check on the toploader (model NES-101).
If you're going to sell 100,000 or 1,000,000 of something, a lot of tasks become a more reasonable part of the budget than if you're going to sell 100 or 1000 of something.

For Nintendo it might very well be worth spending $10,000 to hire a few people to play every game for an hour. Not so much for a small scale project like this HDMI adaptor.

Great Hierophant
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Re: Hi-Def NES HDMI Adapter for the NES

Post by Great Hierophant » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:29 pm

Considering that the issues reported have been isolated to a handful of games and the firmware is upgradeable, I would say this is a successful launch.

Now if Nintendo had released the top loader and later discovered that it had a major incompatibility issue with a number of games, then it may have had to engage in an expensive recall. However, they had the best knowledge available and could determine that the changes made, which essentially turned it into a 72-pin Famicom with detachable controllers, would not have likely affected the functionality of the licensed games.

guitarzombie
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Re: Hi-Def NES HDMI Adapter for the NES

Post by guitarzombie » Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:15 am

They did with the Power Glove. But most of the problems are something you'd find out immediately, not something like after 2hrs of game play.

BTW I think theres 677 licensed games, unless you're taking into account PAL games and stuff.

qwertymodo
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Re: Hi-Def NES HDMI Adapter for the NES

Post by qwertymodo » Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:15 am

tepples wrote:
qwertymodo wrote:To fully test every game manually would take longer than it did to develop the thing in the first place.
Yet we can probably safely assume Nintendo ran the 713 licensed games through lot check on the toploader (model NES-101).
It's less of an issue there because the toploader used the exact same CPU and PPU, down to the same revision, as the front loader. A better example would be the SNES 1CHIP or SNES Jr. revisions, which they obviously *didn't* test all games on because there are games that introduce graphical glitches on those versions of the console (or maybe they did test but didn't care, who knows...)

Great Hierophant
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Re: Hi-Def NES HDMI Adapter for the NES

Post by Great Hierophant » Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:28 pm

The NES Top Loader had the benefit of using the same revision NES CPU and PPU as most of the Front Loaders, the G revision. However, the Analogue Nt uses chips culled from Famicoms, which use all sorts of revisions, A, B, C, D & E and even no revision. Things changed quite a bit during these revisions, leading to potential issues when you try to push the hardware like the HiDef NES mod does.

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game-tech.us
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Re: Hi-Def NES HDMI Adapter for the NES

Post by game-tech.us » Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:32 pm

Great Hierophant wrote:The NES Top Loader had the benefit of using the same revision NES CPU and PPU as most of the Front Loaders, the G revision. However, the Analogue Nt uses chips culled from Famicoms, which use all sorts of revisions, A, B, C, D & E and even no revision. Things changed quite a bit during these revisions, leading to potential issues when you try to push the hardware like the HiDef NES mod does.
I think Kev told me they didn't put those non rev chips in any of the NT's, but that's just hear-say...

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kevtris
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Re: Hi-Def NES HDMI Adapter for the NES

Post by kevtris » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:42 pm

guitarzombie wrote:Im not sure why they didnt try to test every game, or do a beta and have people test ever game. Unless thats what they're doing now?
Weeelll, I would've needed a complete collection of games. Let me pull that out of my hip pocket... oh wait. Seriously though, I only have a few handfuls of games to test with, and used a powerpak for testing other things. Games are quite expensive now and I don't have a complete collection by far, making it difficult.

I think I did pretty darn good for the initial release, though. The update fixes almost everything, and it looks like the remaining joker is going to be blaster master. I need to buy/borrow a cart of this since I don't know if testing it on the powerpak will be good enough.
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kevtris
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Re: Hi-Def NES HDMI Adapter for the NES

Post by kevtris » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:44 pm

Great Hierophant wrote:The NES Top Loader had the benefit of using the same revision NES CPU and PPU as most of the Front Loaders, the G revision. However, the Analogue Nt uses chips culled from Famicoms, which use all sorts of revisions, A, B, C, D & E and even no revision. Things changed quite a bit during these revisions, leading to potential issues when you try to push the hardware like the HiDef NES mod does.
Mostly. Only G, H, and E revs were used (I've never found an F rev). The others were indeed culled, though there were very few D and earlier rev parts.
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guitarzombie
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Re: Hi-Def NES HDMI Adapter for the NES

Post by guitarzombie » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:14 pm

I thought you guys were using an Everdrive/Power Pak in the vids.

How would that be different from using the actual cart? I thought those flash carts just kept the games hex code.

(Altho those mmc5 games that it cant handle, thats different)

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tokumaru
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Re: Hi-Def NES HDMI Adapter for the NES

Post by tokumaru » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:39 pm

guitarzombie wrote:How would that be different from using the actual cart?
They're very different, electronically. For example, I remember something about input not working in some games running on the PowerPak (Paperboy?), which happened because the game made use of the values in some data lines that are not modified by the console during controller reads, but due to the way the PowerPak uses the data lines it returned different values, breaking the game. Or something like this. The point is that the only way to make the games work was hacking them to account for the different behavior, since that was caused by a difference at the hardware level.
I thought those flash carts just kept the games hex code.
That's a huge oversimplification of what a flash cart does. Yes, they load exact replicas of the original ROM chips into RAM chips and make them available for the console to read, but a cartridge is much more than just raw memory. The chips inside the cartridges can be wired in a multitude of ways, including the mapper chips, which are simulated in Flash carts and might not behave 100% like the originals. There's also the issue of mapper revisions, where new versions of mappers like the MMC1 or MMC3 behave slightly differently from older versions, and you never know which version the Flash cart's implementation was based on.

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