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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:42 pm 
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Posts: 151
is this thing documented? fceux lets you pick it for the expansion port controller but I don't see how to configure it. i dug into the latest source but it didn't seem to be implemented beyond being in the list?

i received one of these today and i want to find some interesting things to do with it (mad scientist plan is a racermate hack to use this). is there a test rom of any kind that would let me see values in real time on all the 4016/4017 bits? that would make it pretty easy to figure out which bits tied out to various controller actions.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 7714
Location: Seattle
Nocash has some documentation, but it looks incomplete.

*edit* this random video (in russian) on youtube has a teardown, showing two shift registers and a bunch of digital inputs.

*edit2* The interface is approximately the same as the power pad, with the following mapping:

Code:
4021 PP# wire   what
 8    4  ORANGE  throttle1
 7    3  Vcc
 6   12  Vcc
 5    8  Vcc
 4    -  RED     throttle2
 3    -  BROWN   throttle3
 2    -  right button    *edit3* "start"
 1    -  left button    *edit3* "select"
 8    2  gnd
 7    1  GREY    bike tilt right
 6    5  PURPLE  bike tilt left
 5    9  turn right
 4    6  turn left
 3   10  YELLOW  brake
 2   11  GREEN   switch
 1    7  BLUE    NOT tilt forward
 


Last edited by lidnariq on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:48 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:09 pm
Posts: 693
Here are a few photos of the bike: http://famicomworld.com/system/controllers/top-rider/
And some more: http://famicomblog.blogspot.com/2014/07 ... cycle.html
That (and disassembled program code) is about what I had when reverse-engineering the controller.

Maybe the biggest mystery are the Start/Select buttons mentioned on the blogspot page, I assume they are referring to the two black buttons underneath of the handle bar, but the photos don't show which one is Start and which is Select (or if they are marked as so at all) (and if they aren't marked, do they act as Start/Select nethertheless?).

The tilt sensors haven't been much of a mystery... because nobody knew that they did exist at all, at least not in english speaking world. Quite surprising to hear about that feature now. Now knowing about it, it explains why there are two bits for "steering" left & right each, one of the bits is actually tilt.

And the wheelie is triggered by another tilt sensor, does that really react to leaning forward? Shouldn't it be triggered by leaning back? Or is it intended that one MUST lean forward all the time - and gets the weeling when not doing so?

Something (probably whatever webpage) made me think that the "middle finger on left handle" would control something - is there any control feature in that location?

The controller reading starts with [4016h]=03h, delay, [4016h]=01h, [4016h]=00h. The latter two writes look common for loading the shift-registers. But what is the first write for?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:14 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:12 am
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Location: Seattle
nocash wrote:
And the wheelie is triggered by another tilt sensor, does that really react to leaning forward? Shouldn't it be triggered by leaning back? Or is it intended that one MUST lean forward all the time - and gets the wheelie when not doing so?
I don't really know. All I can do is show this screencap from the video I linked:
Attachment:
mpv-shot0008.jpg
mpv-shot0008.jpg [ 234.82 KiB | Viewed 690 times ]


Quote:
Something (probably whatever webpage) made me think that the "middle finger on left handle" would control something - is there any control feature in that location?
There's a physical switch ("GREEN") in the middle of the left handle, by the thumb. The automatic translation of the automatic transcription of the video says this is equivalent to a gear shift. (160kph vs 240kph at max throttle)

Quote:
The controller reading starts with [4016h]=03h, delay, [4016h]=01h, [4016h]=00h. The latter two writes look common for loading the shift-registers. But what is the first write for?
Having looked at the PCB, there aren't enough wires for both OUT1 and OUT0 to be used. But I don't know which of the two are used, either.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:09 pm
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Re-reading my descriptions in everynes.htm, I had written this "the picture on the box depicts a function near ring finger of left hand". Which, the box does actually depict that together with some japanese description, maybe it's just reading that one can turn the handle bar left/right. Anyways, I'll remove the finger from the drawing in everynes.htm.

The russian movie shows start/select engraved in the white case (at some point earlier than the teardown), Select is the left button, and Start is the right one (that matches up with what you got from looking at the PCB) (versus how the game behaves on Press Start).

Btw. the bike is emulated in no$nes, too (see "No$nes Controls" help chapter). The emulation is currently using analog inputs because I was thinking that the different steering bits were analog (or multi-position switches), now it looks more accurate to use something like DPAD-Left/Right plus ShoulderButton-Left/Right to distinguish between steering or tilting (or one could use an actual tilt sensor if one has one on the PC).

FrankWDoom, do you have the whole bike, or only the handlebars? If you have the bike, what's the length/width/height of the inflatable part? And how much weight can you load on it before it makes pop?

Then saddle for me
Me milk white steed
Me big horse is not speedy-o


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:27 pm
Posts: 151
i have the bike too, i'll get some measurements. i can hear the balls for the tilt sensors moving in the controller but it sounds like something else rattling in there too, so i'll have to open it up. i can get pics of whatever you guys want.

for now i've stared an album here with a couple clearer shots of the controller

famicom top rider controller

edit: i hooked up the controller for a test run. to answer one question, the forward/back sensor is forward when the controller is in a neutral position. you have to tip it back quite a ways to get the sensor to register as "not forward".

there's definitely something wrong with my side to side tilt, i can't get the guy to lean hard left.

is the throttle supposed to be analog input? or is it like stepped no/half/full throttle? at the lightest throttle i can get to register it accelerates to the low 70s and bounces around there


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:12 am
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Location: Seattle
It's supposed to be semi-analog? Looking in the video, there's clearly three buttons that are pressed in various combinations for various angles.
Could be as many as six different angles detectable; it's hard to tell from the video.

edit: nocash's document indicates that the code only really handles 4 values, one for each button and none pressed.


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