Help fix a NES Clone (Phantom System)

Discuss hardware-related topics, such as development cartridges, CopyNES, PowerPak, EPROMs, or whatever.

Moderators: B00daW, Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Fisher
Posts: 989
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:58 am
Location: -29.794229 -55.795374

Re: Help fix a NES Clone (Phantom System)

Post by Fisher » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:41 am

l_oliveira wrote:Aww that's some sad story.
Unfortunatelly... But it's really fun to read them in english, so I can learn a little bit more :-).
l_oliveira wrote:Anyway if any more questions pop up I'll try to be of help.
That's great, since as most of you may have noticed, my knowledge is not that great. :oops:
But with the community helping, I think most of the problems can be solved in the best way possible!!

tepples
Posts: 21752
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
Contact:

Re: Help fix a NES Clone (Phantom System)

Post by tepples » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:25 pm

Fisher wrote:
l_oliveira wrote:The Turbo Game if I am not mistaken, use the same controller port pinout as the Phantom System
You're totally right!! In fact, Phantom System, Turbo Game and Hi-Top-Game use the same controllers pinout.
The last time we talked about it, TmEE said there were two different pinouts for famiclone controllers. Do the majority of famiclones use this pinout? I was hoping that if I ever get into Genesis programming, I could somehow autodetect the use of a famiclone controller instead of a 3- or 6-button Genesis controller and support that.

User avatar
l_oliveira
Posts: 404
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:51 am
Location: Brasilia, Brazil

Re: Help fix a NES Clone (Phantom System)

Post by l_oliveira » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:07 pm

Most famiclones use the 15pin connector used on the Famicom. I believe that it's Brazilian clones that were using the 9 pin connector.

Dynavision wiring is meant to re-purpose Atari joystick cables. So it uses both rows.

Gradiente pinout uses only the five pins on the top.

User avatar
Fisher
Posts: 989
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:58 am
Location: -29.794229 -55.795374

Re: Help fix a NES Clone (Phantom System)

Post by Fisher » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:28 pm

Finally!!
I searched my stuff and found a Polyvox's Atari schematics.
It doesn't have the PAL-M board though :cry:
I scanned it at 300dpi/8bpp and pasted the resulted images.
Hope it's fine. What do you think??
Esquema Atari Polyvox 300dpi.png
tepples wrote: TmEE said there were two different pinouts for famiclone controllers.
I think I saw a DVD game using the same pinout as the Dynavision.
You can check this link from Luccas homepage and take a look at the Dynavision 3's schematics if you wish.
Maybe should be a good idea to upload these schematics here, just in case something happens with his page...

User avatar
tokumaru
Posts: 11466
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:43 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Re: Help fix a NES Clone (Phantom System)

Post by tokumaru » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:59 pm

Fisher wrote:I searched my stuff and found a Polyvox's Atari schematics.
Nice! I've been meaning to fix a couple of bad Polivox 2600's I have lying around, so this could possibly help me out. There are different Polivox models though... I have an earlier one with a proper 2-sided green PCB and a newer one with a cheaper looking 1-sided brown PCB. I can't tell if there are any significant differences in the circuit though.
It doesn't have the PAL-M board though :cry:
I'm sure I have one of these boards in here somewhere, which I took off the Atari I successfully converted back to NTSC. Do you want me to take some pictures of it or something?

User avatar
Fisher
Posts: 989
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:58 am
Location: -29.794229 -55.795374

Re: Help fix a NES Clone (Phantom System)

Post by Fisher » Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:45 pm

Great!
I need to be able to identify the capacitor marked as C5 and the transistor T1 (it's the only transistor on this board :-b).
Also, please confirm to me if R2 and R3 are both 2k2.

You don't happen to have a Playtronic's NES laying around that you could use to clarify where the infamous yellow wire connects to, do you?

Thanks in advance.

User avatar
tokumaru
Posts: 11466
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:43 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Re: Help fix a NES Clone (Phantom System)

Post by tokumaru » Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:57 pm

Here are the pictures. I took them before you asked for these specific parts, so I'll check those now. I just realized I have the board for the other 2600 model too, and the Playtronic NES board, so I took pictures of them as well:
Polyvox Atari 2600 PAL-M board (1-sided brown PCB model)
Polyvox Atari 2600 PAL-M board (1-sided brown PCB model)
Polyvox Atari 2600 PAL-M board (2-sided green PCB model)
Polyvox Atari 2600 PAL-M board (2-sided green PCB model)
Playtronic NES PAL-M board
Playtronic NES PAL-M board

User avatar
Fisher
Posts: 989
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:58 am
Location: -29.794229 -55.795374

Re: Help fix a NES Clone (Phantom System)

Post by Fisher » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:06 pm

Thanks!!
Unfortunatelly I still can't know the electrolitic value. :-(
I bet it's a 1 Microfarad. (how am I supposed to type the Micro symbol?)
The transistor is a BC548!!
I'll try to reassemble that stuff as soon as I can!! :-D

I still don't know where the yellow wire is connected on the NES' board though.
It's the only piece that is missing in this puzzle.

User avatar
tokumaru
Posts: 11466
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:43 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Re: Help fix a NES Clone (Phantom System)

Post by tokumaru » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:18 pm

Fisher wrote:Unfortunatelly I still can't know the electrolitic value. :-(
I bet it's a 1 Microfarad. (how am I supposed to type the Micro symbol?)
The transistor is a BC548!!
Here they are:
pal-m-polyvox-components.jpg
I still don't know where the yellow wire is connected on the NES' board though.
It's the only piece that is missing in this puzzle.
This board came from a failed attempt to convert a Playtronic NES to NTSC, which is pretty much dead now (the NTSC crystal I bought didn't work and putting the PAL-M one back didn't do anything, so I'm not sure what to do about that...) and I can't tell where the yellow wire came from (I took pictures back in the day but have no idea where they are now). I do have another Playtronic NES that I could check, I'll try to do it when I find the time to sit down an open it. Can't promise it will be soon though.

User avatar
l_oliveira
Posts: 404
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:51 am
Location: Brasilia, Brazil

Re: Help fix a NES Clone (Phantom System)

Post by l_oliveira » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:31 pm

If you ever come by Brasilia area let me know I am sure I can revive your nes. I'd wager you broke a trace on the oscillator circuit and it's no longer oscillating. No clock, no video.

Btw, the Polivox Atari with "proper green board" is simple a REV 16 4 switches USA board. It was not made in Brazil hence why they had that transcoder board inside the ICs cage stuck inside with a sponge on the bottom so it would not rattle. ;)
Last edited by l_oliveira on Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lidnariq
Posts: 8784
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:12 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Help fix a NES Clone (Phantom System)

Post by lidnariq » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:31 pm

Fisher wrote:I still don't know where the yellow wire is connected on the NES' board though.
There's really only two possibilities:
1- It's not needed, and so It doesn't actually go anywhere, or
2- The trace from 2C02 /IRQ to 2A03 /NMI is cut and yellow goes to the latter.

User avatar
l_oliveira
Posts: 404
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:51 am
Location: Brasilia, Brazil

Re: Help fix a NES Clone (Phantom System)

Post by l_oliveira » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:35 pm

I remember undoing a Playtronic NES transcodification once. All I had to do was replace the color crystal, stuff the missing resistor on the video amp and remove the wires for the transcoder board.

User avatar
tokumaru
Posts: 11466
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:43 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Re: Help fix a NES Clone (Phantom System)

Post by tokumaru » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:45 pm

http://nesarchive.net/v4/tutorial/retra ... para-ntsc/
http://blogonap.blogspot.com.br/2015/05 ... ional.html

Both these guides tell you to remove the transcoder board, fix 2 broken traces, and swap the crystal. They don't say anything about a missing resistor.

As for the Atari 2600, this tells you to remove the board, swap the crystal, and *remove* a capacitor and bridge the connections for whatever reason... I didn't do this step and the conversion turned out fine.

http://maniacogameroom.blogspot.com.br/ ... -para.html
Last edited by tokumaru on Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Fisher
Posts: 989
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:58 am
Location: -29.794229 -55.795374

Re: Help fix a NES Clone (Phantom System)

Post by Fisher » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:49 pm

tokumaru wrote:Here they are:
Thanks again!!
More one doubt solved!
lidnariq wrote:1- It's not needed
I really think this is the answer.
Maybe the orange wire too.

@tepples:
These are the pinouts I'm aware of:

Code: Select all

    ------------------    ___
   /-----------------/   |   \
   \ o1 o2 o3 o4 o5 /    |4o  \
    \              /     |2o o7|
     \ o6 o7 o8 o9/      |2o o6|
      ------------       |1o o5|
                         -------
   Phantom   Dynavision   Nintendo
1-   Gnd        Vcc         Out
2-   R/W        R/W         Clk
3-   Clk        Clk         R/W
4-   Out        Out         Gnd
5-   Vcc        Shot        Shot
6-   Shot       Gnd         Trig
7-   Trig      Audio        Vcc
8-    -        Audio         -
9-    -         Trig         -
Edit:
@l_oliveira:
Does the TV's image looks better after the modification?
I've done some original NTSC vs original PAL-M comparisons on my old TV.
Unfortunatelly, I've seem no difference... :-(
Maybe it's the TV, since it was a CCE one...
But I think I already said that I think it's a good idea to let the consoles on the original designed state.
Last edited by Fisher on Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
tokumaru
Posts: 11466
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:43 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Re: Help fix a NES Clone (Phantom System)

Post by tokumaru » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:52 pm

You guys make me want to take that picture to solve the mystery of the yellow wire... I can't believe they'd have the wire if it wasn't needed.

Post Reply