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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:23 am 
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Posts: 4
I need help setting this up with linux. I was reading this page: http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7912&start=240 about how qbradq was porting it to linux but when I tried to do it myself, I got completly lost (probobly becasue I got linux 2 days ago :P ) If someone could give me a clear explination on how to setup everything so I can dump roms again, I would greatly apreciate it!
-NESguy


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:37 pm 
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Posts: 36
Anyone ever try to read a non-standard NES cart through the Kazzo?

I'm trying to dump an odd MMC1 SKROM board that has a 256Kb CHR ROM. The spec for MMC1 states that 128KB CHR is the max, but in this case a 256Kb CHR is 100% in use and is necessary.

When I dump using the mmc1_skrom.ag script I get an equal 128Kb PRG and a 128Kb CHR. The game loads but the CHR GFX is off at parts.

I managed to modify the script and now I get a 128Kb PRG and 256Kb CHR but the GFX are totally screwed up.

Code:
board <- {
   mappernum = 1, vram_mirrorfind = false, ppu_ramfind = true,
   cpu_rom = {
      size_base = 1 * mega, size_max = 2 * mega,
      banksize = 0x4000,
   },
   cpu_ram = {
      size_base = 0x2000, size_max = 0x2000,
      banksize = 0x2000
   },
   ppu_rom = {
      size_base = 2 * mega, size_max = 2 * mega,
      banksize = 0x0400,
   }
};


I assume that I need to adjust the other address values to tell the anago software to read the CHR ROM past 128Kb.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19221
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
A 256 KiB CHR ROM requires 18 address inputs: A0 through A17. But the MMC1 has only five CHR ROM address outputs: CHR ROM A12 through A16. What wire goes to CHR ROM A17?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:11 pm
Posts: 10
I'm trying to use the Kazzo to dump a Lolo 3 prototype, but am running in to problems.

The prototype cart uses a MMC1B2 mapper.

This is how the first 128 KB of PRG of the resulting dump I get compares to the released version of the game

0-16 KB - Match exactly the released version
16 KB - 32 KB - Same data that is contained in 64 KB - 80 KB of dumped ROM
32 KB - 48 KB - Match exactly the released version
48 KB - 64 KB - Matches 112 KB - 128 KB of released version
64 KB - 80 KB - Match exactly the released version
80 KB - 96 KB - Same data that is contained in 64 KB - 80 KB of dumped ROM
96 KB - 112 KB - Different from released version
112 KB - 128 KB - Matches 80 KB - 96 KB of released version

So basically some 16 KB chunks match the released version, some 16 KB chucks match but are out of order, some 16 KB chunks of data are repeated, and one 16 KB chunk is different.

Does anyone have any suggestions? The prototype works in a NES. Below are some pictures. Also, there is a label on the back of the prototype that states "SK EPROM 1 MEG x 1 MEG A9 MOD" I'm not sure what the "A9 MOD" means. I have tried using both the "mmc1_skrom.ag" and the "mmc1_surom.ag" scripts.

Image


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:07 pm
Posts: 36
Quote:
A 256 KiB CHR ROM requires 18 address inputs: A0 through A17. But the MMC1 has only five CHR ROM address outputs: CHR ROM A12 through A16. What wire goes to CHR ROM A17?


Tepples, CHR ROM "A17" is routed to PRG ROM "VPP"


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 6437
Location: UK (temporarily)
brian wrote:
I'm trying to use the Kazzo to dump a Lolo 3 prototype, but am running in to problems.
[...]
I have tried using both the "mmc1_skrom.ag"[...]
What problems are you running into? The 27C301 apparently only holds 128 KiB of data. (Is CHR not dumping at all? Or what do you get?)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:11 pm
Posts: 10
lidnariq wrote:
brian wrote:
I'm trying to use the Kazzo to dump a Lolo 3 prototype, but am running in to problems.
[...]
I have tried using both the "mmc1_skrom.ag"[...]
What problems are you running into? The 27C301 apparently only holds 128 KiB of data. (Is CHR not dumping at all? Or what do you get?)


The dumped ROM is not usable. The CHR is dumping as well, but it is similar to what I see with the PGR when I compare to the released version - it matches in some sections but is completely different in others.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:41 pm 
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Posts: 6437
Location: UK (temporarily)
If you have a multimeter, can you check if the MMC1 is connected the same way as normal NES-SKROM ?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:54 pm 
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Posts: 10
lidnariq wrote:
If you have a multimeter, can you check if the MMC1 is connected the same way as normal NES-SKROM ?


I have a multimeter, but unfortunately I'm not very familiar with it or what I would need to do to check this.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:58 pm 
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Location: UK (temporarily)
For each labelled pin on the wiki pinout of the MMC1, see if it connects to the corresponding pin on the 27C301s and/or the cartridge edge connector

27C301 pinout: http://www.arcadiabay.de/images/elektro ... pinout.jpg
Cartridge edge connector: http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Cartridge_connector

The multimeter hopefully has a "continuity" mode, perhaps indicated with a o))) (three progressively larger parentheses) icon, that will beep if you touch the leads together. That's the easiest way to check this.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:11 pm
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lidnariq wrote:
For each labelled pin on the wiki pinout of the MMC1, see if it connects to the corresponding pin on the 27C301s and/or the cartridge edge connector

27C301 pinout: http://www.arcadiabay.de/images/elektro ... pinout.jpg
Cartridge edge connector: http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Cartridge_connector

The multimeter hopefully has a "continuity" mode, perhaps indicated with a o))) (three progressively larger parentheses) icon, that will beep if you touch the leads together. That's the easiest way to check this.


Ok, thanks for the hints - I was able to figure it out.

Everything mapped in the diagram for the MMC1 except for:

- MMC Pin 5 says it should map to PRG /CE (Pin 22) but on the proto it maps to PRG OE (Pin 2)

- I didn't check MMC Pin 6 (not sure where the WRAM CE would be to check?)

- MMC Pin 4 says it should map to PRG A17 but I don't see an A17 on the HN27C301 diagram. I checked the other pins on the PRG chip but it didn't map to any of them.

Thanks again for your help figuring this out!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19221
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
For a ROM, /CE (chip enable) and /OE (output enable) do similar things. Pulling /CE high puts the ROM in a low-power state. Pulling /OE high keeps the ROM powered and just disconnects it from the data bus. The ROM responds faster to /OE than to /CE. So some games will use /OE as the primary chip enable to squeeze a little more speed out of the ROMs at the cost of power consumption.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:11 pm
Posts: 10
tepples wrote:
For a ROM, /CE (chip enable) and /OE (output enable) do similar things. Pulling /CE high puts the ROM in a low-power state. Pulling /OE high keeps the ROM powered and just disconnects it from the data bus. The ROM responds faster to /OE than to /CE. So some games will use /OE as the primary chip enable to squeeze a little more speed out of the ROMs at the cost of power consumption.


Thanks for the info. So I'm assuming that probably would not explain why I can't get a good dump with the Kazzo. Do you or anyone else have any other ideas for what I could try or check? Thanks again for everyone providing suggestions and info :)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:08 pm 
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Posts: 6437
Location: UK (temporarily)
First thought: any visible rework anywhere on the PCB? "A9 MOD" implies something to do with address line 9 ... I'd naively assume PRG instead of CHR, but...
I have no idea what use there would be in modifying (as opposed to simply repairing) A9, though.

BootGod has some references PCB pictures from Skrybe here, if anything's not obvious...

I don't suppose you have access to someone with a 'PROM programmer? At this point my best guess would be to try reading the ROMs directly...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:48 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:11 pm
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What kind of EPROM programmer would be best to read these kind of chips? How difficult is it to remove the chips from their sockets? I've never done anything like this before.

There were a couple of reworked things on the back of the board, here are some pictures

Image

Image


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