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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:49 pm 
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Yeah, I ordered the programmer, it hasn't arrived yet. I'd like to speed things up by preparing whatever I can before it gets here, so I decided I'd take the ROMs from a NROM cart off. But... how the hell am I supposed to take them off? The pins are so small and all, is it really possible to desolder them? I can barely make contact between the soldering iron and the thing... I read once someone cut all the pins and then desoldered them, but that would mean ruining the game that's in there, right? So, how should I go about removing the ROMs? Thanks for the help!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:17 pm 
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It is possible to desolder them. Take the tip of the soldering iron, and touch it to the solder. Then take your desoldering device, and remove the solder when it's hot. I'd reccomend a desoldering pump, or something along the lines of an eyedropper type of device. With mine, you push down on this button, and when your ready to have it suck the solder up, press another button, and it will well, suck it up. I didn't think it'd work, but it did. Desoldering can be a bitch, I will admit. Beware... In every desoldering project, there is ALWAYS one pin that is such a bitch, and so hard to desolder. I call it the bitch pin.

It could be any pin on any chip, but it will give you such a hard time, and it will take like 1 hour to desolder. I personally have never had any of my NROM devcarts work on a real NES. I tried it with my old shit that probably wouldn't work on a NES anyways, so the next time I'll just try replacing the mask roms with some EPROMs programmed with another NROM game that actually works.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:30 pm 
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Celius wrote:
With mine, you push down on this button, and when your ready to have it suck the solder up, press another button, and it will well, suck it up.

I bought one of those... but coudn't even get to the point of using it! Maybe the soldering iron is not working well, I coudn't get anything to melt. It is a very cheap and old one, I'll try to buy a new one soon. Almost did it today, but I figured the one I had would do. I was wrong.

Quote:
I personally have never had any of my NROM devcarts work on a real NES. I tried it with my old shit that probably wouldn't work on a NES anyways, so the next time I'll just try replacing the mask roms with some EPROMs programmed with another NROM game that actually works.

Yeah, i think I'll try to program chips with some commercial game, just to see if it works and I don't get frustrated so soon. And i'm just trying NROM because no rewiring is needed. What board did you get working, Celius?

Anyway, after you succeed in removing the ROM, is it any hard to solder a socket in it's place? I'm doing what Memblers (I think) said, have one socket soldered to the board and another with the chip, and then the sockets are the ones connected and disconnected all the time, and nothing important gets damaged.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:13 pm 
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I didn't get any board working, sadly. I've attempted like 3 times, and none of the times worked. I was using my old crappy code though, so it might have been that. But what you might want to do alot is when the tip of your soldering iron turns all black and crusty, you want to sand with sandpaper, so you can get all that crap off. Whenever I try and tin my iron, the rosin seperates from the alloy, and burns on to the tip, and the alloy balls up and just slides off my iron. So I just don't even try, and I sand off what gets burned on the iron when I'm soldering. It works, so don't worry, I'm not like killing my iron.

It's a little tricky to get the EPROM in the socket, or whatever you're using. I should really get some standoffs, or whatever they're called. The slots for sticking chips in, so you can just stick it in, and pull it out, you know? For quick and easy chip switching. You solder them into your board, and you just stick chips in them. They seem REALLY handy. I need to buy some more EPROMS. Unfortunately, I bought a Willem with USB power only, but I was told it would work with all chips it said it was compatible with. Obviously it should be, but some people here were saying it wouldn't, a while back.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:48 pm 
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Check this out: http://www.aaroncake.net/electronics/desolder.htm

I recommend using solder wick, that's how i removed ROMs from my devcart.
It seems like the desoldering is more difficult than soldering itself.

Good luck with your devcart!
- sepi


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:43 pm 
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Celius wrote:
Desoldering can be a bitch, I will admit. Beware... In every desoldering project, there is ALWAYS one pin that is such a bitch, and so hard to desolder. I call it the bitch pin.

I agree, exept that for me there is MORE than one single pin, and you'll never really know wich one(s) are bitch, because it is hard to see it.
And also, I OVERHATE SOLDERING AND DISOLERING.
And the first one that says soldering is the basic of the electronics will get kcked by me.

_________________
Life is complex: it has both real and imaginary components.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:33 pm 
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tokumaru wrote:
Anyway, after you succeed in removing the ROM, is it any hard to solder a socket in it's place? I'm doing what Memblers (I think) said, have one socket soldered to the board and another with the chip, and then the sockets are the ones connected and disconnected all the time, and nothing important gets damaged.


It is much easier to solder a socket it its place. However, be careful of what type of socket you choose. ZIF (Zero Insertion Force) sockets are much more bulky, but if you aren't going to try to put a case on the cart - it shouldn't matter. I used them in my NROM and CNROM carts. Regular sockets are much thinner, and take up less room on the cart itself. However, you need to be VERY careful when removing ROM's from the regular sockets, because you can easily bend/break the pins.

Here are some pictures:

ZIF socket (32 pin):

Image

Regular IC socket (32 pin):

Image

For the ZIF socket, you simply place the ROM inside, then flip the little handle and it locks on. With the regular IC socket, the ROM "snaps" in place, and can be hard to get out. I use one of these to remove it now, and it works wonders:

Image

That is a simple DIP extractor. It looks cheap and simple, but I couldn't live without it. You can place equal pressure on each of the ROM (lengthwise), and easily pull it out without breaking any pins.

Hope that helps,

NC


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:40 pm 
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Last edited by loopy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:58 pm 
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loopy wrote:
Try to find as small a ZIF socket as you can, there's not much room on these NES boards. You'd have a hard time making that big green monster fit.


I couldn't find this image earlier, but here is (bad) top-down picture of the ZIF sockets I use. As Loopy said, there isn't much room in there.

Image

It's called a low profile ZIF socket. It's about half the height, and not as wide, either. I found them cheap on eBay, because people use them in some types of Honda's.

NC


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:35 am 
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loopy wrote:
And yeah.. yanking/prying out IC's all the time sucks. Big potential for breaking pins, esp. if you're new to this.


Yes, Especially if you live in EU country where IC pins are so much more fragile because of lead-free directives.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:27 pm 
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Would it be possible to clip the original ROM pins in the middle and then solder the EPROM onto the old pins?

It seems that you would be using the old pin solder sterngth and the new EPROM chip would just slide to either side for easy installing. And it's not like you're going to be using the old chip again anyways.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:13 pm 
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noriaki_kakyouin wrote:
Would it be possible to clip the original ROM pins in the middle and then solder the EPROM onto the old pins?

It seems that you would be using the old pin solder sterngth and the new EPROM chip would just slide to either side for easy installing. And it's not like you're going to be using the old chip again anyways.


Take a look at this link from Romlab: click here

You might not even have to solder it to test it, but I'm sure you would want to if it was for long term use!

NC


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:42 pm 
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Dude, that's exactly what I was thinking of!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:35 pm 
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Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
No Carrier wrote:
Take a look at this link from Romlab: click here

MacGyver likes this ghetto socket.


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