Platform-a-lotis

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rainwarrior
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Re: Platform-a-lotis

Post by rainwarrior » Tue May 23, 2017 9:28 pm

Ah! So there is a 32-sprite limit that works like the NES, and then a second limit of 34 8-pixel slivers which is the part that might seem "reversed"? (Edited my attempted summary.)

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dougeff
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Re: Platform-a-lotis

Post by dougeff » Tue May 23, 2017 10:18 pm

Edit, retracted. I think you have it right.
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Oziphantom
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Re: Platform-a-lotis

Post by Oziphantom » Tue May 23, 2017 11:40 pm

I would like to take this moment to award TmEE with a trophy of "stayed on topic and answered the question" :beer: :D

As to what is a platformer, for me, a platformer is a game where platforming makes up a large part of the experience.
So Green Beret/Rush'n'Attack is a run and gun.
Mario Bros is a platformer.
Super Smash Bros Brawl/Melee are fighting games, and the adventure mode is getting borderline between platformer and beat-em-up
In that you have Platfromers and games with platfoming elements

@Tepples "single screen-osis" love your work. see also Flip-Screenis although probably not an issue in NES land as you actually have char scroll in hardware ;) Often people also contract Collect-a-lot-us at the same time as Flip-Screenis :D

And yes I'm fully aware of the reason for said conditions ( hell, Qwak is a single screen platform game, Squid jump is a platformer, so I'm in the same boat ) and I'm not trying to call out or point out peoples failings because of said things.

What I'm trying to do is get people have a general roundatable discussion on musing of other types of games they would enjoy, for example
nesboy1 wrote:I loved Eye of the Beholder and would like to see a new game in that style
or
nesweebYaoiGirl wrote:JRPGS are the best, something cutsy like Kingdom hearts would feel right at home on the NES
or
hotGunner wrote:I have a zapper that doesn't get used, I want to shoot me something, like maybe the shuriken bonus game in Shinobi only I fire with my gun
oziphantom : Switchs platforms to board the other train

Does the SNES 32 sprites mean 32 sprites or 32 8x8 pieces of sprites?

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Re: Platform-a-lotis

Post by lidnariq » Tue May 23, 2017 11:47 pm

On every scanline: 32 sprites ("range over"; the sprite evaluation only has space to remember 32 sprites) and 34 8-pixel wide pieces of sprites ("time over"; the PPU's data bus only has time to fetch 68 16-bit words per scanline)

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Sumez
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Re: Platform-a-lotis

Post by Sumez » Wed May 24, 2017 12:50 am

I actually thought the original topic of this thread was very interesting! Especially considering how large a part of the NES/Famicom library was originally platformers in the first place. And probably an even larger percentage if you filter only the most popular titles on the platform.

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Re: Platform-a-lotis

Post by TmEE » Wed May 24, 2017 5:49 am

The way I see things, "Platformer" part would mean only how you traverse stages, but that is usually not the objective of the game. You often have to collect stuff (sometimes a lot of stuff), occasionally you got to satisfy some conditions to pass the stage (some cases elaborate ones), and sometimes you just got to shoot around, and oftentimes such objectives are even combined. Of course there are many more types of objectives, but personally I am most fond of the whole shooting side of thing, with or without the platformer part :P

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Do the sprites on SNES that are further down the list appear on top of earlier ones or not ?

In case of MD the sprites are rendered in the order found in the list and earlier sprites appear on top of ones further down the list. Sprite pixel is put into linebuffer only if that particular pixel hasn't been written to yet, so you get the first on top rather than last on top (and it allows easy sprite overlap bit setting too). Dropout happens only for the last thing to be rendered.

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Re: Platform-a-lotis

Post by tepples » Wed May 24, 2017 8:12 am

psycopathicteen wrote:Something that gets on my nerves with homebrew NES games is the lack of moving platforms.
Try Haunted: Halloween '85. After getting through a particular section of the Neighborhood level, you'll be grateful that more homebrew games don't have tricky lift mazes.
Also, isn't there a mapper that lets 8x16 sprites use 512 CHR patterns while backgrounds use another set of 256?
MMC5, but good luck replicating that on a CPLD.
Oziphantom wrote:see also Flip-Screenis although probably not an issue in NES land as you actually have char scroll in hardware
But you can't have the left and right halves of the screen using different sets of 256 tiles without MMC2/4 or MMC5. (Again, good luck replicating that on a CPLD.) Nor can you have different sides using different sets of four palettes. CHR and palette conflicts are probably why A Boy and His Blob and Battle Kid are flip-screen. They're also why Haunted: Halloween '85 has right side exits between level sections.
nesboy1 wrote:I loved Eye of the Beholder and would like to see a new game in that style
How easy would it be for a 1- or 2-man hobby project to develop a new Product Identity (that is, fictional universe) around the d20 3rd or 5th edition mechanics? Does the Open Game License even apply in a clear way to video games?
nesweebYaoiGirl wrote:something cutsy like Kingdom hearts would feel right at home on the NES
I thought the appeal of Kingdom Hearts was its crossover among over half a century of well-known Walt Disney Pictures fictional universes. What comparable fictional universes could a 1- or 2-man hobby project license or create?
hotGunner wrote:I have a zapper that doesn't get used
It'll get used even less after your CRT dies. But if you have a CRT and want to use your Zapper for something not commonly done, try ZapPing (from Action 53 volume 1). Grab a friend, plug in two Zappers, and avoid missing the ball.

Can we direct the comparison of various retro platforms' sprite capacity to another topic?

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Re: Platform-a-lotis

Post by psycopathicteen » Wed May 24, 2017 8:18 am

With the MMC5 with 8x16 mode, you can probably flicker sprites when you need more than 8 banks at one time.

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Re: Platform-a-lotis

Post by Oziphantom » Wed May 24, 2017 8:42 am

This General Stuff, not Nes Dev.
The point is not lets make a list of games 1 man and a dog could make?
This topic is water cooler, chew the fat, dream the dream...
A talk of what game styles people liked, that aren't platformers because those are covered ;) A shout out to Shoot-em fans, or RC Pro AM like Isometic racing games..

and TBH I'm not actually sure of the appeal of Kingdom Hearts 1 1.5 1.6 2 2.2 2.8 3.14159

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Re: Platform-a-lotis

Post by gauauu » Wed May 24, 2017 9:25 am

tepples wrote:
nesboy1 wrote:I loved Eye of the Beholder and would like to see a new game in that style
How easy would it be for a 1- or 2-man hobby project to develop a new Product Identity (that is, fictional universe) around the d20 3rd or 5th edition mechanics? Does the Open Game License even apply in a clear way to video games?
The trick with RPGs isn't difficulty, it's content generation. So it's not a question of "how easy", it's a question of "how much time and dedication", and how much content do you want. (a "dumb" rpg with random mazes, no story or script, few monsters, few unique spells, etc, would be pretty easy for a small team)

The point is not lets make a list of games 1 man and a dog could make?
This topic is water cooler, chew the fat, dream the dream...
I think in competitions you get more different types of games because single-screen games are just (usually) quicker and easier to make. But once you get beyond single-screen games, yeah, it seems like a lot of homebrew games are platformers. Maybe because they're fun to make? But also, like others have said, there's so much variety in types of platformers. A puzzle-style platformer (Eskimo bob) is very different from a jump/run game (like Nebs n Debs) or from a metroidvania/adventure. (Lizard? I dunno)

I'm still toying with the idea of making a NES sequel to my Anguna series (zelda-like), so that would be something. (although I've got another game, a platformer, in the works first, and I'm SLOW)

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Re: Platform-a-lotis

Post by NovaSquirrel » Wed May 24, 2017 9:39 am

psycopathicteen wrote:Something that gets on my nerves with homebrew NES games is the lack of moving platforms.
Nova the Squirrel has moving platforms too but I don't use them much. I am using the code I figured out for that for riding on top of certain projectiles though.
tepples wrote:
psycopathicteen wrote:Also, isn't there a mapper that lets 8x16 sprites use 512 CHR patterns while backgrounds use another set of 256?
MMC5, but good luck replicating that on a CPLD.
Altera's 10m02 FPGA has over twice the number of logic elements as the PowerPak's FPGA (which has MMC5 implementations) and is pretty cheap, so the only concern left is how pricey it is to translate the voltages. Relevant Twitter thread.

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Re: Platform-a-lotis

Post by FrankenGraphics » Wed May 24, 2017 9:41 am

A good way (i think) to indie an RPG would be to gather a few friends/family/colleagues/flatmates and do some improv pen and paper. Take notes or better yet, record everything. There are pen and paper games built to encourage and strengthen improvised narration, like the many "powered by the apocalypse" systems out there. They work well. Take that content, and reshape it to fit a homebrew.

Example: SyFy's tv show "the expanse", adapted from books, are in turn based on role playing sessions. I think an indie adventure or rpg can be a lot smaller than that and still feel satisfactory.

But there's still work to be done with practical content creation. It's one thing to muse plots around a table and another thing to draw baddies and monsters.
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Re: Platform-a-lotis

Post by zzo38 » Wed May 24, 2017 10:26 am

FrankenGraphics wrote:A good way (i think) to indie an RPG would be to gather a few friends/family/colleagues/flatmates and do some improv pen and paper. Take notes or better yet, record everything. ... SyFy's tv show "the expanse", adapted from books, are in turn based on role playing sessions. I think an indie adventure or rpg can be a lot smaller than that and still feel satisfactory.
I have also play Dungeons&Dragons and GURPS game and then put into computer. You can do too if you like to do. I do try to record everything.

I don't know possibly computer game can use a few of these ideas too, but maybe is not everything.
But there's still work to be done with practical content creation. It's one thing to muse plots around a table and another thing to draw baddies and monsters.
Drawing the pictures is more difficult I think. (It can be why making many computer game that do not have the pictures.)
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Re: Platform-a-lotis

Post by rainwarrior » Wed May 24, 2017 12:00 pm

psycopathicteen wrote:Something that gets on my nerves with homebrew NES games is the lack of moving platforms.
In the last compo, more platformers had moving platforms than not. Twin Dragons, Lala, Cheril...

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Re: Platform-a-lotis

Post by calima » Thu May 25, 2017 1:55 am

Then you should make (and release) moving platform platformers ;)

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