Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Discussion of hardware and software development for Super NES and Super Famicom.

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jwdonal
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by jwdonal » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:50 pm

I was already aware about 9mo or so ago that kevtris was working on FPGA SNES. I had inside knowledge from Taber at Analogue but I told him I would keep it secret. However, even having that knowledge I kind of always thought it should have been obvious what he was working on - I mean what else would he be working on? O.o

In any case, the two consoles have entirely different goals. My goal is to get the entire SNES design and additional information open sourced. Super Nt is obviously not going to be open sourced. Lol.

More VeriSNES updates to come!

Cya!

Kismet
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by Kismet » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:11 pm

jwdonal wrote:I was already aware about 9mo or so ago that kevtris was working on FPGA SNES. I had inside knowledge from Taber at Analogue but I told him I would keep it secret. However, even having that knowledge I kind of always thought it should have been obvious what he was working on - I mean what else would he be working on? O.o

In any case, the two consoles have entirely different goals. My goal is to get the entire SNES design and additional information open sourced. Super Nt is obviously not going to be open sourced. Lol.

More VeriSNES updates to come!

Cya!
I put in a order for the Super NT anyway, but I still want to see how your project progresses. If you eventually release FPGA code for it, it may create an opportunity to "root" the SuperNT with it, assuming kevtris doesn't just do the same thing he did with the Analogue NT anyway.
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Erockbrox
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by Erockbrox » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:02 pm

Just make your SNES console just a little bit cheaper than the competitors and then you will win in the end. Hahaha

I'm sure you will do fine and have the communities support. Especially after all the hard work you did. It is quite an accomplishment.

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jwdonal
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by jwdonal » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:38 pm

Erockbrox wrote:I'm sure you will do fine and have the communities support. Especially after all the hard work you did. It is quite an accomplishment.
Thanks for the support! Like I said, since I already knew about it nothing has changed for me. I'm just gonna keep on doing what I do! I'm happy for Kevin, he's awesome!

:beer:

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MottZilla
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by MottZilla » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:20 pm

Erockbrox wrote:Just make your SNES console just a little bit cheaper than the competitors and then you will win in the end. Hahaha

I'm sure you will do fine and have the communities support. Especially after all the hard work you did. It is quite an accomplishment.
One stand out feature I'd like to see is Analog Video output. It looks as those the Super NT is going to be HDMI only which is a major bummer. I know Analog Displays are obsolete now but support for them is still very nice to have as the sorts of people interested in these things are often the type to have quality CRTs in their collection of equipment.

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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by tepples » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:16 pm

Unless it uses HDCP (which it probably won't), you can use your analog computer monitors through an HDMI to VGA transcoder.

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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by adam_smasher » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:29 pm

Presumably (?) that'd add some lag, and one of the big reasons why people would want a hard-SNES/CRT combo is to minimize lag.

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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by tepples » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:46 pm

As I understand it, 480p has the same timings over HDMI and VGA. This means a properly made converter would introduce less than a scanline of lag.

93143
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by 93143 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:19 pm

Would that work with the Super Scope?

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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by lidnariq » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:33 pm

Theoretically you should be able to convert each 8b10b chunk sent via TMDS over DVI/HDMI into an analog pixel with only a pixel's worth of latency. (This is what would be necessary for superscope functionality)

I have no idea if anyone does this outside of trivial demonstrations using a HDMI deserializer and a high-speed DAC. There seems to be a certain level of laziness that just leads to people throwing things into a framebuffer (and adding latency) even when it's unnecessary.

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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by marvelus10 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:42 am

Some of the last Sony 4:3 CRT TV's had HDMI inputs, I always keep my open for these on Craigslist and such.

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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by tepples » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:53 am

93143 wrote:Would that work with the Super Scope?
No. Unlike the Zapper, which I would expect to work on a 31 kHz CRT receiving a "100% scanlines" signal, the Super Scope is synchronized to the 5.37 MHz pixel clock, which is doubled even in 480p. You'd be able to hit only half the width of the screen, and even for that, the horizontal coordinate would be incorrect (squeezed horizontally) unless software is patched to compensate.

But in practice, whether Super Scope is a priority depends on the popularity of games that require the Super Scope. Which such games are compelling?

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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by mikejmoffitt » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:17 am

marvelus10 wrote:Some of the last Sony 4:3 CRT TV's had HDMI inputs, I always keep my open for these on Craigslist and such.
Using these offers virtually no advantage over a modern HDTV, except for the potential appeal of phosphors themselves. These have image processors and scalers just the same as an HDTV, with a different output stage being the only difference.

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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by Guspaz » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:15 am

tepples wrote:
93143 wrote:Would that work with the Super Scope?
No. Unlike the Zapper, which I would expect to work on a 31 kHz CRT receiving a "100% scanlines" signal, the Super Scope is synchronized to the 5.37 MHz pixel clock, which is doubled even in 480p. You'd be able to hit only half the width of the screen, and even for that, the horizontal coordinate would be incorrect (squeezed horizontally) unless software is patched to compensate.

But in practice, whether Super Scope is a priority depends on the popularity of games that require the Super Scope. Which such games are compelling?
240p is part of the HDMI spec. Some HDMI -> VGA converters support 240p, and will output a 15 kHz signal. All you've got to do to get that on a PVM is use a sync combiner. At that point, I should think the Super Scope would work fine, assuming the converter didn't use a framebuffer.

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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by MottZilla » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:13 pm

The Super Scope does have some nice games, two of which are Battle Clash and the sequel Metal Combat.

I definitely think any SNES clone should output analog RGB and should be compatible with the Super Scope on a CRT. The Super Scope can be a lot of fun.

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