Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Discussion of hardware and software development for Super NES and Super Famicom.

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panzeroceania
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by panzeroceania » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:39 pm

Guspaz wrote:
240p is part of the HDMI spec.


It is now but it is not a feature supported by the Super Nt. The Super Nt only does 480p, 720p, and 1080p, per their website

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Guspaz
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by Guspaz » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:36 am

panzeroceania wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
240p is part of the HDMI spec.


It is now but it is not a feature supported by the Super Nt. The Super Nt only does 480p, 720p, and 1080p, per their website


Analogue is at least aware that there is a desire for it: I tweeted the request for 240p HDMI at them, and they liked it. Doesn't mean they'll do it, but they're at least aware.

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James-F
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by James-F » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:22 pm

Hi.

@jwdonal, what say ye about helping ikari implementing SuperFX and SA-1 on the SD2SNES?
You have the talent and already know how the main snes CPU works and have the code in FPGA form.

Sorry about hijacking.

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jwdonal
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by jwdonal » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:30 pm

James-F wrote:what say ye about helping ikari implementing SuperFX and SA-1 on the SD2SNES?
Would love to. I think it makes a lot of sense, most especially if the VeriSNES is open-sourced.

James-F wrote:Sorry about hijacking.
I don't think asking about other potential applications for the VeriSNES on the VeriSNES thread is hijacking... ;)

--
Using this thread to talk about the Super Nt however is - so let's tighten it up people! Lol :)

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James-F
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by James-F » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:27 am

This is fantastic to hear that you have the will to do it, this will be quite huge improvement to the value of sd2snes.
If you can/will please contact him directly, I certainly don't want to be a middle man in such grandiose historical events if they happen. :)

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greatkreator
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by greatkreator » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:45 am

It seems to be a bit unpleasant to find out Super Nt is released...
However the fact that the both are useless fakes soothes the pain.

The battle of fakes is coming: who will be more similar to the Original?

It could be an exact hardware copy of the original but who needs it? Everyone needs a fake. Sad.

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James-F
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by James-F » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:59 am

FPGA based clones are more real than the official Snes mini.
Besides, the original hardware from the 90s is not eternal but FPGA code, IS.

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kevtris
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by kevtris » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:30 pm

greatkreator wrote:It seems to be a bit unpleasant to find out Super Nt is released...
However the fact that the both are useless fakes soothes the pain.

The battle of fakes is coming: who will be more similar to the Original?

It could be an exact hardware copy of the original but who needs it? Everyone needs a fake. Sad.


People got new TVs since 1992 and want a system that works on a contemporary flat panel display. Scaling options exist but they tend to be fairly expensive and add lag.
/* this is a comment */

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greatkreator
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by greatkreator » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:09 pm

Snes mini is just a disgusting and deeply disappointing piece of cr..
Of course it will be absolutely ok for the majority of casual players that would like to get a bit of retro enjoyment.
But why Nintendo did release that?!... Please unrelease it back.
Create the same cool console as it was in the past but brand new + a good audio-video output + (would be really cool but not required: wireless gamepads). That's it. Profit.
Nobody told Nintendo that we already could play that cr.. without Nintendo and their "genius" invention Snes Mini very well.

If not a secret what's wrong with contemporary flat panel displays + the original console? The composite output?

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tokumaru
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by tokumaru » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:17 pm

greatkreator wrote:If not a secret what's wrong with contemporary flat panel displays + the original console? The composite output?

The way modern TVs interpret 240p composite signals sucks balls, because of interlacing issues, mostly. That is, if they even support composite video anymore... Analog connections are already being abandoned by TV manufacturers.

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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by adam_smasher » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:21 pm

Yes, the low resolution composite output. Most modern LCD TVs are quite poor at upscaling 240p video.

Also: it'd be great if Nintendo reissued "real" SNESs but that's just not going to happen. There just isn't a big enough market for original carts, and throwing a Linux emulator on an ARM SoC like in the SNES Mini is way way cheaper than manufacturing custom chips. So the only "real thing" we have is 20+ year old hardware that's starting to fail irreparably.

And what's the real thing anyway? The original 1/1/1 SNES? Do 1CHIPs count? SNES Jr's?

It's entirely possible that the VeriSNES/Super NT's behaviour might be closer to the 1/1/1 SNES than some later official Nintendo models. Would that make them more or less fake than an SNES Jr. that can't run Pocky & Rocky?

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marvelus10
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by marvelus10 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:14 pm

If an FPGA clone was based on a 1-Chip SNES would it then have a sharper picture than that of one based on the original 2 chip version?

tepples
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by tepples » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:03 pm

The 1CHIP's sharper output is a result of an improved DAC (digital to analog converter) in the PPU. The DAC quality is theoretically independent of the accuracy of the S-CPU and S-PPU logic that precedes it. The silicon is fast enough nowadays that an FPGA Super NES could look as sharp as the 1CHIP even if its logic is based on that of pre-1CHIP revisions like the 1/1/1 or 2/1/3.

But DAC quality really only matters on a device that outputs 240p/480i composite, S-Video, RGB, or YPbPr, or 480p RGB or YPbPr through a line doubler. Something that outputs only HDMI needs no DAC at all.

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James-F
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by James-F » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:52 pm

adam_smasher wrote: Would that make them more or less fake than an SNES Jr. that can't run Pocky & Rocky?

Pocky and Rockey, and Super Ghouls and Ghosts, both are bugs of SD2SNES where it didn't reset some DMA address like a when switching a real cartridge which requires a full power cycle.
It has been fixed in version 1.7 from April 2016.

There are indeed minor bugs and glitches with the 1Chip consoles... like an emulator. :shock:
The 1Chip is just an integrated snes on a chip, much like the new wave of snes-on-fpga are, and snes-on-fpga's have the benefit and potential to be 100% accurate to whatever revision of the real hardware the programmer chooses and firmware updated.
Moreover, adding analog video outputs is also an option.

Anyway, it is great to see jwdonal advancing with his open source VeriSNES.

adam_smasher
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Re: Introducing the VeriSNES (FPGA-based SNES)

Post by adam_smasher » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:58 pm

I have neither of those games so I'm just writing from hearsay, but if you google around people report issues with original carts not working on 1CHIPs.

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