Aren't you afraid that NES Maker would just bring lazy noobs

Discuss technical or other issues relating to programming the Nintendo Entertainment System, Famicom, or compatible systems.

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Bregalad
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Re: Aren't you afraid that NES Maker would just bring lazy n

Post by Bregalad » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:33 am

I'm glad i took german as an option in high-school and could make out the basic gist of the narration
I can hold a simple conversation in German without much problem but I don't understand much of the intro, only a couple of words.
FrankenGraphics wrote:But yeah, german and gothic themes feels pretty intertwined... not just the gothic font being associated with the horror and gothic romance genre increasingly, but also horror movies like nosferatu and frankenstein first being made by german film studios, and all the associations to pretty gothic poetry and music, like schuberts' der doppelgänger. Listening to it just now, i think the parallel is striking.
[/quote}
I feel like you're confusing the 1980s "gothic" fashion/subculture (linked with horror and everything) with the actual, gothic art style from the middle-adges (which has nothing to do with horror, but has a lot to do with German culture and the gothic letters). Both usages of the word "gothic" are almost completely unrelated to eachother.

The Nosferatu movie is basically a ripoff of Dracula, just like Castlevania, so it's no wonder both are linked to eachother. Apparently the interest for horrors in the 1920s was due to the horrors of the first world war, which leads to the infamous "années folles".

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Re: Aren't you afraid that NES Maker would just bring lazy n

Post by lidnariq » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:38 am

Bregalad wrote:but I don't understand much of [Rondo of Blood's] intro, only a couple of words.
As far as I can tell, no-one much else has either. I've tried to transcribe the dialog there, and no-one else seems to have arrived at the same transcription ... if anyone else has bothered to post it online at all.


On topic: I'm no more worried about NESmaker noobs than I was about noobs making things in ZZT, megazeux, Neverwinter Nights, Unity, GameMaker, RPGmaker, Ren'Py, or any of the hundreds of other game creation systems.

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Re: Aren't you afraid that NES Maker would just bring lazy n

Post by 8bitMicroGuy » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:46 am

Oziphantom wrote:I think the biggest issue for me is.

NES games and by virtue 8bit games are quick and easy to make. Being "at the metal" is the 'joy' of making them. Things happen quick and fast during development. We can make games of the '8bit god' variety. The time sink is not coding, its protyping, designing and testing, so even though coding the games is really fast and easy, it still takes 6 months to make something good. but its a lot faster and easier than on other more modern platforms.
If you are not here for the challenge of the machine, to find and push it in new ways... why come?
Because I like the retro graphics!

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DRW
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Re: Aren't you afraid that NES Maker would just bring lazy n

Post by DRW » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:47 am

lidnariq wrote:
Bregalad wrote:but I don't understand much of [Rondo of Blood's] intro, only a couple of words.
As far as I can tell, no-one much else has either. I've tried to transcribe the dialog there, and no-one else seems to have arrived at the same transcription ... if anyone else has bothered to post it online at all.
You can find it here:

http://www.mobygames.com/game/castlevan ... les/trivia

As a German native speaker, I can confirm that the transcription is correct and that the translation also authentically represents the words.

I can furthermore confirm that the game's intro is actual correct German, i.e. not some incorrect mess that you often hear when people speak German in non-German media.

(By the way, the voice is from the same guy who dubs Dr. House in German.)
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JoeGtake2
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Re: Aren't you afraid that NES Maker would just bring lazy n

Post by JoeGtake2 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:57 am

Tepples - your stuff is obviously always top notch...would absolutely love to work with you to be able to use your music tool as an alternative base if you're up for it. Let's chat! :-)

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Re: Aren't you afraid that NES Maker would just bring lazy n

Post by lidnariq » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:05 am

.... huh.
That is definitely not the same audio I heard. Oh, I see, this is the version for the PSP.

Some things I could easily believe I misunderstood, but some simple things (like the order of "bat" and "wolf" being reversed) basically guarantees the audio on the original PCengine version is different.

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DRW
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Re: Aren't you afraid that NES Maker would just bring lazy n

Post by DRW » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:13 am

lidnariq wrote:
.... huh.
That is definitely not the same audio I heard. Oh, I see, this is the version for the PSP.
Interesting. I just noticed that there are two versions.

That's the other one:
http://www.mobygames.com/game/castlevan ... ood/trivia

This time, not with Dr. House.

Also, it looks like the original version is not as polished. It's still correct German, but the actual contents of the statements sound odd:
"Men begin to reject growth and call peace degeneration."

Wut? This makes no sense, does it?

Also, the narrator cannot decide whether he's a general narrator:
"During the good old times, men still lived in tranquillity and peace."

Or whether he's actually part of the cast:
"We are gathered here to call upon the forces of darkness through our cursed blood."

It's not poor German, but poor writing in general.

This is fixed in the PSP version which is a much better and more consistent text.
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MistSonata
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Re: Aren't you afraid that NES Maker would just bring lazy n

Post by MistSonata » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:04 pm

As one of these "noobs" being discussed, reading some of the posts in this thread has been a bit disheartening. I understand that the general attitude among people here is more welcoming than it seems, but I know for a fact that the way some of these criticisms are worded, it's not going to come across as friendly to a lot of people.

And that's a shame, because a lot of people who are going to come here because of NESmaker aren't just potential competitors, they're customers. If I had never heard of NESmaker and gotten involved in the community, I would never have played and enjoyed Lizard or Legend of Owlia, or Nova the Squirrel. Maybe there'll be a flood of lackluster games, but I think NESmaker will more than make up for it in how many people it brings to NES homebrew scene in general, as it brings NES game development closer to the mainstream.

That said, I'm hoping to make games that are decent enough that the little "Made With NESmaker" logo I put on my title screens is badge of honor, instead of an indication of poor quality. I don't want NESmaker to become another RPG Maker in reputation (the name is too similar already).
Oziphantom wrote:If you are not here for the challenge of the machine, to find and push it in new ways... why come?
There's a simple charm to the NES that doesn't seem to be limited to the people who grew up with it. I admit that part of the appeal to me is to see if I can make something cool on such a limited system, but the charm of the system itself is what makes me want to try.

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koitsu
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Re: Aren't you afraid that NES Maker would just bring lazy n

Post by koitsu » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:48 pm

MistSonata wrote:There's a simple charm to the NES that doesn't seem to be limited to the people who grew up with it. I admit that part of the appeal to me is to see if I can make something cool on such a limited system, but the charm of the system itself is what makes me want to try.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAhR4yCn24s -- surprisingly accurate.

Oziphantom
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Re: Aren't you afraid that NES Maker would just bring lazy n

Post by Oziphantom » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:33 am

Good old Guu that show was great..

psycopathicteen
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Re: Aren't you afraid that NES Maker would just bring lazy n

Post by psycopathicteen » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:56 pm

I don't care if we have lazy noobs. I just hope the "noobs" don't spread false technical information based on confusing the system with the engine.

slobu
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Re: Aren't you afraid that NES Maker would just bring lazy n

Post by slobu » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:08 am

I think the real disaster are low level programmers so set in their ways that they actively find reasons to disparage beginners and early accomplishments. This sets up an antagonistic relationship where people don't want to support high level tools and high level tool users are wary of taking steps towards asm and C.

I don't see this yet in the NES dev community. So, there's hope. Topics like this make me wonder though.

1-Up
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Re: Aren't you afraid that NES Maker would just bring lazy noobs

Post by 1-Up » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:21 am

I don't think lazy is the adjective I'd use. People have different standards and levels of creative talent / imagination. It takes at least some effort to produce a full game, even if using NesMaker without delving into the scripts.

As a 'noob' I'm currently producing my first game which is something I've wanted to do since C64 days. As more of a creative artistic person, I've never really been able to get into programming fully but do try. I wouldn't consider that 'lazy' as I'm willing to learn what I need to make a decent polished game. I couldn't do that without NesMaker.

If you mean fully published indie games (i.e for sale) I kinda get what you mean. At the moment I can be pretty sure if I'm paying for a new NES game (eg. Micro Mages, little medusa) I know it's going to be good. Maybe that will change. That's the only concern I have but I guess that's what reviews are for. As for homebrew freely shared games, even if they're complete tosh, at least they're learning and trying. The way NesMaker is setup, it will make most people want to get into the scripts fairly early on.

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Controllerhead
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Re: Aren't you afraid that NES Maker would just bring lazy noobs

Post by Controllerhead » Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:06 am

NESmaker has existed for around 2 years now, I think it's safe to say this hasn't happened. They have their own forums.

Anyway, I wouldn't dismiss anyone who wants to develop an NES game who cant wrap their head around all of the limitations, pitfalls and "gotcha's" of the hardware as a "lazy noob". I'm sure there are talented pixel artists, chiptune composers, and gameplay designers who don't understand assembly language, bank switching, mapper intricacies, scanline timing, and the unintuitive wackiness that is getting the PPU / APU to do basically anything. The information here on the forums and in the wiki is wonderful, and the people here are super helpful! Still, it's quite a time commitment to digest, and the learning curve is steep. Personally, I came here with gamedev experience, and it has taken the better part of a year to get things moving on a CRT. NESmaker offers things moving on a screen instantly, which is awesome, but it has severe limitations; too many limitations for my liking.

If only there were a tool that offered point and click game creating / editing with the flexibility of modifying the engine under the hood. Nothing like that exists currently to my knowledge. ...Well, that "thing" may soon exist. That is all i can say about it, for now =)

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Re: Aren't you afraid that NES Maker would just bring lazy noobs

Post by nesrocks » Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:15 am

Controllerhead wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:06 am
If only there were a tool that offered point and click game creating / editing with the flexibility of modifying the engine under the hood. Nothing like that exists currently to my knowledge. ...Well, that "thing" may soon exist. That is all i can say about it, for now =)
:D :beer: Sounds like a dream!
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